COVID Deaths are an Undercount

[Guest]

As to EA's point about all cause mortality, it is definitely up across teh globe and here is the NYT showing how there are thousands of excessive deaths unaccounted for in New York alone: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... eaths.html

We're likely missing more than 1,000 deaths per week just in NY.

Hey EA, I thought you'd get a kick out of this https://mises.org/wire/march-us-deaths- ... all-deaths

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

"The numbers are beautiful."

- President Trump talking about COVID-19 deaths.

What I want is accurate testing, accurate care, competent capacity, and accurate tracking. I'd be more than happy to accept a second Trump term if, say, we could've kept death and infections low through competent leadership. The problem with discussing this with the Right is they'll never admit to their misinformation spread through FOX and shows like Limbaugh, gutting agencies that could've abated the effects of this pandemic, not following the literal book on a pandemic created by the previous administration, so on and so forth.

They just say stuff. And just saying stuff is enough. It doesn't matter if what they said yesterday was a lie, or inaccurate, or stupid, because they'll just say more things today completely ignoring what they said yesterday. They're the most Orwellian idiots I've ever seen. It's absolutely mind boggling to see someone so abjectly retarded, like subgenius, just say stuff. Vrooooom. Drive-by. Say some stuff. Don't engage for more than a post or two, wait a few days, and vrrrroooooom! Another drive-by! And that is the state of American politics and its electorate. Facts don't matter.

- Doc

[_DarkHelmet]

Apart from the tragic absurdity of you guys hoping for a higher death count, it must be noted that whomever you are sourcing your total from there is more probability that your are wrong. Yes, it could be more and yes, it could be less. But the hyperbole stemming from your hysteria is becoming more laughable and is perhaps the most damaging consequence of this whole hysteria. Like how many of you were blatantly wrong about the 30 day death rate claim on another thread.

When you review CDC reports (based on death certificate reporting) you can see the following clarifications:
1Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19, coded to ICD–10 code U07.1.
2Pneumonia death counts exclude pneumonia deaths involving influenza.
3Influenza death counts include deaths with pneumonia or COVID-19 also listed as a cause of death.

The report stands that from Feb 01 to April 18 we have 21,050 deaths [b}confirmed AND presumed from COVID19[/b].
To speculate and then demand that this number is 500 or 50,000 more or less is speculation that only serves as masturbation for hysteria.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/

Says the guy who claimed this whole thing was a media exaggeration that would be over by now. Your gift of discernment is underwhelming.

[_Icarus]

Subgenius projects like no other.

His claim that we want more deaths is really him projecting that he and his ilk are the one desperately needing the numbers to be fake.

[_EAllusion]

[quote=Icarus post_id=1222447 time=1587573365 user_id=19355]

Hey EAllusion, I thought you'd get a kick out of this https://mises.org/wire/march-us-deaths- ... all-deaths
[/quote]Yeah, the libertarian-verse hasn't been great here. Fortunately, the libertarians I like and are ideologically similar to me (Julian Sanchez, Radley Balko, Ken White, etc.) have been good, but it's not been great for libertarianism as a brand.

Your reference doesn't go to this, but three very famous libertarian figures in the legal world, arguably the three most prominent of all, have absolutely beclowned themselves. Just total embarrassment. Liberals already understand and strawman libertarianism about as well as MAGAtwitter gets liberalism, and this is just going to napalm any hope of clearing things up for the foreseeable future. I'm not sure it's even salvageable.

In response to this specific article - the Lew Rockwell paleolibertarians are the worst - I wonder if the author has changed his view now that it is clear the all-cause mortality numbers are way above normal.

[_canpakes]

The report stands that from Feb 01 to April 18 we have 21,050 deaths [b}confirmed AND presumed from COVID19[/b].
To speculate and then demand that this number is 500 or 50,000 more or less is speculation that only serves as masturbation for hysteria.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/

Except, as others have noted, that your statement is incorrect.

From your site:

“COVID-19 death counts shown here may differ from other published sources, as data currently are lagged by an average of 1–2 weeks.”

The figure that you list - 21,050 - has a note, as indicated by an asterisk, stating: “Data during this period are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes. This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more, depending on the jurisdiction, age, and cause of death.”

You are quoting a figure that is known to be incomplete and that cautions as such, and therefore provides a lower count than the actual figure given complementary reporting. And in the midst of promoting your incorrect POV, you’re chiding others who are providing arguably more realistic figures.

I’m always amazed at how you try so hard to be wrong so often.

[_EAllusion]

After subs posted that, I learned that this is actually spreading through the conservative-verse as propaganda and is not a subs specific thing. People who don't know or don't care about the difference between signed death certificate processing and mortality stats are just running with it to confuse people.

[_canpakes]

EA -

Perhaps all of subs’s posts should have a similar disclaimer:

“Posts during this period are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the conservative web source or 4chan meme page that I’m mindlessly copy and pasting from and when I have been able to add my own rambling and incoherent text to it is completed, submitted to Mormon Discussions and processed for posting. This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more, depending on whether or not there are any big words in the original source, or how badly misinformed or purposefully disingenuous I need to make myself appear.”

[_Res Ipsa]

After subs posted that, I learned that this is actually spreading through the conservative-verse as propaganda and is not a subs specific thing. People who don't know or don't care about the difference between signed death certificate processing and mortality stats are just running with it to confuse people.

Of course it is. Otherwise Subs wouldn’t have known to post it. This week’s local health district press conference was mostly devoted to this nonsense. The local health district and the county medical examiner went through determining cause of death, and they handle COVID 19 like they handle flu or any other disease. One numbnut asked the medical examiner if a person with COVID-19 died in a car accident, would it be classified as COVID-19? I could hear the eye rolls over the feed.

We have flu surveillance in the US. If a case is confirmed by a test, it’s listed as flu. If not, it’s recorded as influenza-like illness. You can see COVID spreading in the US by looking at ILI spiking as influenza it’s decreasing.

[_DarkHelmet]

After subs posted that, I learned that this is actually spreading through the conservative-verse as propaganda and is not a subs specific thing. People who don't know or don't care about the difference between signed death certificate processing and mortality stats are just running with it to confuse people.

Of course it is. Otherwise Subs wouldn’t have known to post it.

You have to give him credit for his loyalty to alternative right-wing media. They are good at getting out consistent talking points. Subgenius is practically indistinguishable from every right-wing "friend" who posts stuff on social media. The right is really good at creating a unified message and then having their little foot soldiers spread that message. I've pruned several of my conservative friends off my friends list to cut down on the duplicate meme's and talking points.