The Downward Spiral of Contempt

[honorentheos]

DUBNER: And contempt is this nasty cocktail of anger plus disgust, which is not a hot emotion anymore. It’s a cold emotion, it says, “You are worthless. And what you said is worthless. You are beneath my regard.” And that’s something that should be reserved for something that’s not human.

There’s the rationalization process for moving to the next step, correct?

We now have plenty of folks across the country that would speak of secession by force, if necessary. That gets easier when one characterizes their political foes as less than human.

I could read this as a suggestion that the flow of contempt is moving towards dehumanizing others. And we've discussed that pretty extensively here. I posted because this is the first thing I've heard or read in a while that seemed solution based that wasn't entirely BS.

My main three takeaways were, again -

1) Increase Love, or will/act into being the good of others.
2) Vote for politicians who will act FOR you rather than vote against something you oppose.
3) Media diet matters more than just about anything if you want to defrag the matrix.

Essentially, be FOR positive things and put effort and time into those rather than the negative.

I think it's kinda funny that an economist would put this out there but it makes sense. Consumer confidence is a positive self-feeding loop. Likewise, runs on banks, sell-offs, and most other negative financial events may have substantial, meaningful causes but the human factor and the degree of optimism or pessimism is fuel or an accelerant. So maybe that's what it really comes down to is choices to not only not be part of the problem, but choose to put energy in to hold off the flow of entropy...or something. Mixed metaphors and analogies be damned.

[Gadianton]

Otherwise, we're back to debating if it is ethical to go out and punch Nazis...and I don't want to live in that world. Not anymore. It's a crappy place.

I'm not saying that. In fact, there is plenty of ill-advised self-righteousness in attacking evil. There was this Amazon series not too long ago called Nazi Hunters, and I thought it was a terrible idea. In fact, I could do without pretty much all politicized entertainment. I'm just saying it's clear to me the problem is more with one side than the other. That doesn't, however, tell us anything about how to fix the problem.

1) Increase Love, or will/act into being the good of others.

Nobody can argue with that. And if I'm supposed to do that on this board, then clearly I've failed.

However -- here's the issue I have with it in terms of a free market perspective. The genius of Adam Smith's vision, to the extent that he was correct, was that you don't have to rely on love and goodwill, people can be their vile selves and vile shall keep vile in check. If the nation has to get goodwill and love to go viral, if that's the solution, while I can't but help hold those who try in high esteem, I'm not really optimistic.

2) Vote for politicians who will act FOR you rather than vote against something you oppose.

Good in principle, but your first post indicated that no such politicians currently exist.

3) Media diet matters more than just about anything if you want to defrag the matrix.

True, but changing media diet will be harder than changing a physical diet. Who does this guy imagine wants to change?

[Some Schmo]

If the nation has to get goodwill and love to go viral, if that's the solution, while I can't but help hold those who try in high esteem, I'm not really optimistic.

This is pretty much where I land. I feel mostly despair for the world we're leaving my daughter's generation. Until making money off the news becomes illegal, I think humanity is screwed.

[honorentheos]

Hi Gad,

I suppose the best I can offer is to push the discussion to the full dimensions of Brooks' thoughts rather than rotating flat dimensionless faces around for critique.

Otherwise, we're back to debating if it is ethical to go out and punch Nazis...and I don't want to live in that world. Not anymore. It's a crappy place.

I'm not saying that. In fact, there is plenty of ill-advised self-righteousness in attacking evil. There was this Amazon series not too long ago called Nazi Hunters, and I thought it was a terrible idea. In fact, I could do without pretty much all politicized entertainment. I'm just saying it's clear to me the problem is more with one side than the other. That doesn't, however, tell us anything about how to fix the problem.

1) Increase Love, or will/act into being the good of others.

Nobody can argue with that. And if I'm supposed to do that on this board, then clearly I've failed.

However -- here's the issue I have with it in terms of a free market perspective. The genius of Adam Smith's vision, to the extent that he was correct, was that you don't have to rely on love and goodwill, people can be their vile selves and vile shall keep vile in check. If the nation has to get goodwill and love to go viral, if that's the solution, while I can't but help hold those who try in high esteem, I'm not really optimistic.

2) Vote for politicians who will act FOR you rather than vote against something you oppose.

Good in principle, but your first post indicated that no such politicians currently exist.

3) Media diet matters more than just about anything if you want to defrag the matrix.

True, but changing media diet will be harder than changing a physical diet. Who does this guy imagine wants to change?

DUBNER: Okay, so is love a verb or a noun? Discuss — and feel free to show your homework.

BROOKS: What I’m talking about is the love that we manage, that we make meta-cognitive. So, love is a verb. It is to will the good of the other as other. What is love not? It’s not a feeling. And this is incredibly important to remember, because in our modern culture, we tend to — in my view — over-valorize feelings, which tends to throw us like bits of jetsam on the surf. And we’re getting thrown around a lot, and it makes our lives have less quality, quite frankly, and it makes us bitter and angry, and it makes us suffer a lot more than we need to.

[honorentheos]

DUBNER: Right. You did lose because Trump was not the kind of Republican or conservative candidate that you wanted. And then in 2019, you publish a book called Love Your Enemies: How Decent People Can Save America from the Culture of Contempt. And this book argues that we have reached a contempt crisis in the U.S. and that we need to fight it with kindness, essentially. Now, from the evidence I’ve seen since 2019, that argument of yours is not working so well either. So, let me ask you this — those were just statements. Now, finally, is the rude question. How do you rate yourself as a public persuader? And if not very well, why not? Because you are a smart, experienced, well-meaning person with good communication skills, experience, connections, et cetera. So, what does this failure say about either the message or the messenger?

BROOKS: I have a latent-demand strategy and latent-demand strategies — they lose a lot. You know, entrepreneurship means rolling out something new. And by the way, I might never succeed. But remember that the average successful entrepreneur has 3.8 bankruptcies. I had a couple of bankruptcies. I mean, it wasn’t bankruptcies. They were best-sellers. I mean, that’s not nothing. And by the way, I talk to mayors and governors all the time — many of them were successful using these ideas. Both Democrats and Republicans, who say, “I love this book, and I’m using it. And it helped me get elected and it’s helping me govern, and I’m governing across the aisle.” I mean, you’re right to say that this ideology that I’m trying to inject, it looks a little quixotic, I’m like tilting at windmills or something — I get it. But I think it’s right, I think it’s morally right. I think it can be popular and I think that it just might work. But you got to keep trying. You can’t stop — just because virtue didn’t fit at the current moment — well, I guess I’m going to turn to vice. I know that’s the wrong strategy.

[Gadianton]

This is pretty much where I land. I feel mostly despair for the world we're leaving my daughter's generation. Until making money off the news becomes illegal, I think humanity is screwed.

wondering if honor has any data on demographics. It seems to me the worst of the problem will die off in the next 20 years. My perception is that most of the unhinged right-wingers are older guys.

My hopeful thought is that maybe social media will work itself out. Right now, it's a new shock to humanity, and maybe the next generation won't go so overboard with it. Those who grow up with it might be able to sort themselves out better.

[honorentheos]

This is pretty much where I land. I feel mostly despair for the world we're leaving my daughter's generation. Until making money off the news becomes illegal, I think humanity is screwed.

wondering if honor has any data on demographics. It seems to me the worst of the problem will die off in the next 20 years. My perception is that most of the unhinged right-wingers are older guys.

My hopeful thought is that maybe social media will work itself out. Right now, it's a new shock to humanity, and maybe the next generation won't go so overboard with it. Those who grow up with it might be able to sort themselves out better.

I lack faith in the idea of demographic shift on two grounds as the answer to current issues.

First, polls showed a significant decrease among younger generations compared to older generations in opposition to authoritarian government. If contempt is the problem, simply wishing to see people that have differing views silenced is giving up something fundamental to western liberal democracy and very much part of the problem. Younger people may align with more progressive ideas, but they oppose liberal (in a classical sense) ideals.

Second, Gen Z is revolting against millennial norms. They trend more conservative, have brought old money chic back in vogue, and aren't proving to be grounded for all the access to information and the cultural benefits of pluralism. They are more vested mitigating climate change apparently, but it seems millennials that moved to suburbs and bought houses suddenly found themselves owning a lifestyle rather than an ideology, too.

The age of the vessel tells us little regarding it's contents. And content is what matters.

Society needs better memes, not younger genes, if we are to improve.

[Cultellus]

Its a race to see who can be the biggest dick with the most severe case of victimization.

Looks like the left wingers are winning the race but the right wingers are also winning.

[honorentheos]

I apologize for missing one of the most critical questions when selecting additional quotes I thought spoke to your requests. That being:

Who does this guy imagine wants to change?

Apparently most of us.

But surveys suggest that most of us hate this noise.

BROOKS: Ninety-three percent, if you believe Tim Dixon’s data on this, 93 percent of us hate how divided we have become as a country.

Brooks is referring to a 2018 survey run by an international group called More in Common, which tries to build stronger communities and fight polarization.

Like you say, most of us want the benefits of better eating habits, too. And failing to change those will kill us, potentially.

[Res Ipsa]

Its a race to see who can be the biggest dick with the most severe case of victimization.

Looks like the left wingers are winning the race but the right wingers are also winning.

Yep everybody wins.