DJT 2k motives

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canpakes
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Re: DJT 2k motives

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Jersey Girl wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:31 am
I have no idea how to explain McConnell's BS block on the bill. I don't intend to derail here, but someone please tell me what that is about because I can't keep up with who is damned who and why right now.
That’s because McConnell is a suck-up:
Less than 48 hours after President Donald Trump claimed that "the Senate will start the process for a vote that increases checks to $2,000, repeals Section 230, and starts an investigation into voter fraud," the actual boss of the Senate had his say.
"Those are the three important subjects the President has linked together," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Tuesday. "This week the Senate will begin a process to bring these three priorities into focus."

(That statement came after he blocked Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer's attempt to pass the House-approved measure that would send $2,000 stimulus checks to all eligible Americans.)

Read that McConnell statement quickly and you think it's just him saying something to say something -- without any meaning behind it.  

But go back and read McConnell's quote again.

"Those are the three important subjects the President has linked together," he said of $2,000 stimulus checks, an investigation into (nonexistent) voter fraud and a repeal of Section 230, a part of the Communications Decency Act that alleviates liability for social media companies for what their users post.

Notice the words "linked together" from McConnell. As in, Trump linked that trio of issues together -- and McConnell will, too. (McConnell's move Tuesday afternoon to combine the larger stimulus checks with the elimination of Section 230 suggests this is, indeed, the direction he is headed.)

Why does it matter? Because, as I wrote earlier this week, a straight up-or-down vote on sending out $2,000 checks is a very, very tough one for Republicans -- especially considering that every Democrat would vote for it.

But that vote becomes entirely different if the $2,000 checks are linked to a voter fraud investigation and the repeal of Section 230. Democrats would oppose such a measure en masse. And that would make it VERY unlikely that the bill would get the 60 votes it would need to end debate and push to a final floor vote. 

If things played out that way, McConnell would be able to tell Trump he did his level best to make the President's wishes come true while also not exposing vulnerable GOP incumbents to a straight yes-no vote on the $2,000 checks. Which is a win-win from McConnell's perspective.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/29/politics ... index.html
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Re: DJT 2k motives

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I think Trump was hoping for a government shutdown during the riots on January 6, 2021. I suspect the military will be ordered to stand down when they storm the Capitol.
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Re: DJT 2k motives

Post by Jersey Girl »

Thanks, canpakes. I despise politics. I'm just so blasted sick and tired of the abuse of the American people.
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Re: DJT 2k motives

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Gadianton wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:53 am
the last round of checks ended up with his name on them as he was buying votes. Remember, Trump doesn't actually hold many of the conservative values of his peers, he's an opportunist. He also doesn't care what happens to the world after he dies. Whatever it takes to keep him in power, famous, and wealthy until his end. He'll become a liberal tomorrow if it will make him famous and keep him in power.
I agree. This was obvious to me from the time he began his campaign to become president. I am still gob smacked and heart broken over how many I used to think were reasonable and intelligent people failed to see that glaringly and increasingly obvious fact. :cry: Even sadder, though, is the number who were fully aware of what he was and supported him anyway, for their own opportunistic and selfish reasons.

I derive some hope and consolation, though, from the fact that even in 2016, more people voted against him than for him. I hate the Electoral College system provisions in the Constitution with a passion! Though there is much that is admirable and valuable in the U.S. Constitution, as now constituted, that was a blundering bit of idiocy that needs to be expunged from it as soon as possible!
But, in this case, I'll have to go with Cam, that it was sheer impulsiveness and god knows from there. Doing it when he did could indicate he was pissed at the people because he lost. It could be a lot of things.
I also agree with Cam about that.
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Re: DJT 2k motives

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Trump is an idiot. In that moment, he thought it was the smart thing to say, because he's an idiot.

He says idiot things, and all the idiots follow him like rats to the Pied Piper, because idiocy is music to their ears.

I mean, his idiotic hair alone should make anyone look at him and think, "What a damned idiot. Does he think his square orange head looks good?" But nope. His followers can't help but admire such blatant idiocy. If only they could be rewarded for their own idiocy in the same way. Trump gives them hope. But they're idiots, and don't realize they didn't inherit all the money it takes to be a public idiot and get away with it.
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ajax18
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Re: DJT 2k motives

Post by ajax18 »

It’s hard to really pin him down since he’s always winging everything.

- Doc
Or maybe Democrats believe enough in their own propaganda that it's impossible for them to make accurate predictions.
He'll become a liberal tomorrow if it will make him famous and keep him in power.
Yeah that's what the left said before he was elected. Even people like Glenn Beck and Ben Shapiro ended up being wrong about Trump not governing as a conservative. Romney is the one who would become a liberal tomorrow if he thought it could get him elected. Ted Cruz is principled and unafraid to take on the mainstream media. That's why he came in second in the 2016 primary.

I personally am not very happy about the $2k payout of inflated money borrowed from China. But what am I going to do, vote for Jeb Bush? It's like saying I should abandon Trump because he didn't get the wall built fast enough. So in response I'm going to vote for a guy who's going to tear it down and rip food out of my kids mouths to give to the Democrat party's foreign constituency?
Last edited by ajax18 on Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DJT 2k motives

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Gunnar wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:38 am
I hate the Electoral College system provisions in the Constitution with a passion! Though there is much that is admirable and valuable in the U.S. Constitution, as now constituted, that was a blundering bit of idiocy that needs to be expunged from it as soon as possible!
This discussion of the reasons for establishing the Electoral College below is quite revealing. Here it is argued that a major reason for its creation was not (as is argued nowadays) simply to give small states a voice less unequal to that of larger states - but more specifically to give an advantage to the slave owning states by allowing them to count a proportion of their slaves towards their share of the electoral vote ... with the result that "For 32 of the Constitution’s first 36 years, a white slaveholding Virginian occupied the presidency".

The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists
As Americans await the quadrennial running of the presidential obstacle course now known as the Electoral College, it’s worth remembering why we have this odd political contraption in the first place. After all, state governors in all 50 states are elected by popular vote; why not do the same for the governor of all states, a.k.a. the president? The quirks of the Electoral College system were exposed in 2016 when Donald Trump secured the presidency with an Electoral College majority, even as Hillary Clinton took a narrow lead in the popular vote.

Some claim that the founding fathers chose the Electoral College over direct election in order to balance the interests of high-population and low-population states. But the deepest political divisions in America have always run not between big and small states, but between the north and the south, and between the coasts and the interior.

One Founding-era argument for the Electoral College stemmed from the fact that ordinary Americans across a vast continent would lack sufficient information to choose directly and intelligently among leading presidential candidates.

This objection rang true in the 1780s, when life was far more local. But the early emergence of national presidential parties rendered the objection obsolete by linking presidential candidates to slates of local candidates and national platforms, which explained to voters who stood for what.

Although the Philadelphia framers did not anticipate the rise of a system of national presidential parties, the 12th Amendment—proposed in 1803 and ratified a year later— was framed with such a party system in mind, in the aftermath of the election of 1800-01. In that election, two rudimentary presidential parties—Federalists led by John Adams and Republicans led by Thomas Jefferson—took shape and squared off. Jefferson ultimately prevailed, but only after an extended crisis triggered by several glitches in the Framers’ electoral machinery. In particular, Republican electors had no formal way to designate that they wanted Jefferson for president and Aaron Burr for vice president rather than vice versa. Some politicians then tried to exploit the resulting confusion.

Enter the 12th Amendment, which allowed each party to designate one candidate for president and a separate candidate for vice president. The amendment’s modifications of the electoral process transformed the Framers’ framework, enabling future presidential elections to be openly populist and partisan affairs featuring two competing tickets. It is the 12th Amendment’s Electoral College system, not the Philadelphia Framers’, that remains in place today. If the general citizenry’s lack of knowledge had been the real reason for the Electoral College, this problem was largely solved by 1800. So why wasn’t the entire Electoral College contraption scrapped at that point?

Standard civics-class accounts of the Electoral College rarely mention the real demon dooming direct national election in 1787 and 1803: slavery.

At the Philadelphia convention, the visionary Pennsylvanian James Wilson proposed direct national election of the president. But the savvy Virginian James Madison responded that such a system would prove unacceptable to the South: “The right of suffrage was much more diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes.” In other words, in a direct election system, the North would outnumber the South, whose many slaves (more than half a million in all) of course could not vote. But the Electoral College—a prototype of which Madison proposed in this same speech—instead let each southern state count its slaves, albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing its share of the overall count.

Virginia emerged as the big winner—the California of the Founding era—with 12 out of a total of 91 electoral votes allocated by the Philadelphia Constitution, more than a quarter of the 46 needed to win an election in the first round. After the 1800 census, Wilson’s free state of Pennsylvania had 10% more free persons than Virginia, but got 20% fewer electoral votes. Perversely, the more slaves Virginia (or any other slave state) bought or bred, the more electoral votes it would receive. Were a slave state to free any blacks who then moved North, the state could actually lose electoral votes.

If the system’s pro-slavery tilt was not overwhelmingly obvious when the Constitution was ratified, it quickly became so. For 32 of the Constitution’s first 36 years, a white slaveholding Virginian occupied the presidency.

Southerner Thomas Jefferson, for example, won the election of 1800-01 against Northerner John Adams in a race where the slavery-skew of the electoral college was the decisive margin of victory: without the extra electoral college votes generated by slavery, the mostly southern states that supported Jefferson would not have sufficed to give him a majority. As pointed observers remarked at the time, Thomas Jefferson metaphorically rode into the executive mansion on the backs of slaves.

The 1796 contest between Adams and Jefferson had featured an even sharper division between northern states and southern states. Thus, at the time the Twelfth Amendment tinkered with the Electoral College system rather than tossing it, the system’s pro-slavery bias was hardly a secret. Indeed, in the floor debate over the amendment in late 1803, Massachusetts Congressman Samuel Thatcher complained that “The representation of slaves adds thirteen members to this House in the present Congress, and eighteen Electors of President and Vice President at the next election.” But Thatcher’s complaint went unredressed. Once again, the North caved to the South by refusing to insist on direct national election.

In light of this more complete (if less flattering) account of the electoral college in the late 18th and early 19th century, Americans should ask themselves whether we want to maintain this odd—dare I say peculiar?—institution in the 21st century.
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canpakes
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Re: DJT 2k motives

Post by canpakes »

Chap wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:57 pm
Here it is argued that a major reason for its creation was not (as is argued nowadays) simply to give small states a voice less unequal to that of larger states ...
... and which is already achieved in some measure (legislatively speaking) by the fact that all States have two Senators each, regardless of differences in population.

As it is, one State can essentially control, in large measure, what legislation can even be considered that originates from legislators of any other State, if the Senate Majority Leader so deems.

We have a pretty good system of government in the US, but it’s not without its peculiarities.
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Re: DJT 2k motives

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Ajax wrote:Yeah that's what the left said before he was elected. Even people like Glenn Beck and Ben Shapiro ended up being wrong about Trump not governing as a conservative.
FYI -- the 2,000$ gift isn't governing as a conservative.

I'm not saying that's enough to make him a liberal. It would be nearly impossible for him to switch now, I'm just saying that if the opportunity were there, he'd seize it, and he doesn't give a damn about any conservative position he's ever promoted.

Do you really think Trump is pro-life, that he gives a rat's ass about the 'unborn'?
We can't take farmers and take all their people and send them back because they don't have maybe what they're supposed to have. They get rid of some of the people who have been there for 25 years and they work great and then you throw them out and they're replaced by criminals.
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canpakes
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Re: DJT 2k motives

Post by canpakes »

ajax18 wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:49 pm
So in response I'm going to vote for a guy who's going to tear it down ... ?
It’s not going to be torn down by anyone. It’s more likely to just fall down on its own:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/Trump's ... pse-report

Your tax dollars at work, under the hand of a conman and his cronies.
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