Trump supporters intended to execute vice president during Capitol riots

[Res Ipsa]

All the chanting sheep? Of course not all. But that some of the rioters, chanting or not, did intend harm to Pence and others is beyond any shadow of doubt!

...... We should be very careful not to attribute the intent of some in the group to all in the group.

Who was claiming that?

I didn't say anyone was claiming it. However, the title of this thread is ambiguous, and I thought it appropriate to urge some caution.

[Nomomo]

Who was claiming that?

I didn't say anyone was claiming it. However, the title of this thread is ambiguous, and I thought it appropriate to urge some caution.

Fair enough.

[MeDotOrg]

Who leads a mob? A vanguard of the lowest common denominator. Instagram Influencers with pipe bombs and tactical handcuffs. The rest are pulled in by the excitement of the moment. We're winning! The Revolution is happening!

It's been pointed out that the last time people died in defense of the United States soil was Benghazi, but this not an attack on a diplomatic outpost. This was an attempt to halt the process Democracy by American citizens. Think of all of the Lock Her Up! chants from people wanting to blame Benghazi on Hillary Clinton. What do those people say about an attack on the Capitol of the United States?

Hillary was accused of the sin of omission, by not responding forcefully enough. After exhorting the crowd, Trump watched the storming of the Capitol on Television. He never called out the National Guard. He called Congressmen to change their votes.

The President abdicated his role to preserve, protect and defend. When the subject of a 2nd impeachment trial was originally introduced, I thought impeachment so close to the end of his term was unnecessary. I was wrong. It is not only the Prsident's lies about the election and his exhortations to the mob. It's the fact that he watched the United States Capitol under attack and did not lift a finger.

He is an enemy of the Unites States.

[Gadianton]

well here's the thing. The line is a fine one between angry rhetoric and real-world mob action. collective action is determined by people, but people are in turn, determined by collective action.

How much are people just venting, and how prepared are they to go all the way? For instance, that QAnon neighbor of mine kept talking about killing Democrats and how he's looking for a super truck to outfit in road warrior mode. But at the same time, he's overly sensitive -- he might snap, but he also might back down when rubber hits the road because he doesn't have the heart to hurt anybody. He's very kind to his dog, and I've seen him open a 5$ bottle of designer water he had for himself to give another person's dog to drink because he was worried about it. 75% he'd buckle under pressure.

Showing up with a noose is symbolic and an expression of anger, and the guy who built that noose might be like my neighbor, very sensitive and feelings easy to hurt, and he just wants to show the world how pissed he really is. Same with many of those who brought weapons -- muscle flexing. A nation filling with people muscle flexing has a chance at revolution by intimidation and bravado, without action ever really happening. That's probably been the hope of Trump and other corrupt politicians like Pence and Cruz who are 100% willing to lie to win.

On the other hand, a few might really be hoping to have a war. But just look at those guys going all social media, getting pictures of themselves smiling at a Senators desk or looting historic items -- it's a big game. This isn't a mob of intended killers.

When I was at BYU in the 90s, a group of BYU students got pissed at a toe truck driver towing somebody's car (tow truck guys can be real pricks), they pulled him out of the car and beat him up.

Most of the folks at the riot didn't know they would be breaching the building. Okay, so here you have a symbolic noose, a bunch of people getting their stress out calling for Pence's death, the president sending obvious signals to get violent, the president's lawyer calling for combat, and now, security shows up and gets into it with a few hotheads. Most of those hotheads hadn't really intended on breaching the building, but they get into it with security (have you ever seen a mosh pit at a rock concert and dudes fighting with staff security?) and before they know it they've broken the line.

Now they're in the building. Now some guy who is the quiet type, no gun, who doesn't really know who he is, spots Pence. In the rush to look good to his peers, he rushes to confront Pence and they argue. Another guy sees Pence refusing to admit that he was wrong, this other guy has zip ties for cuffing. Well, when he paraded into the chamber swinging the ties around he was doing no more than the guy sitting at the Senator's desk and smiling. It's a big game. But now that he's here, and a very real Pence giving lip to his buddy, we should at least make him think about what he's done and restrain him; and to think, he was the guy who got him!.

But a restrained Pence refuses to admit that he's done anything wrong.

Well maybe, they ought to take him out to that noose, not because they would ever seriously hang they guy! My God. But for the symbolism and intimidation -- to flex and show this coward how "1776" they really are. Well, the guy who made the noose might tuck tail and stand back at that point, but somebody else might be ready to step things up a notch, and the noose is there?

Years ago, at the local bank branch near my home, an unarmed guy tried and failed to rob the branch (or I can't remember exactly what he'd tried) but a rookie cop was in the area and confronted him. That guy wasn't planning on killing anyone that day, but a gun was on the cop's belt, the cop got in his face, and so he grabbed the cop's gun and killed the cop.

I agree with the officials saying they didn't expect violence, and I disagree with the media saying that because of all the weapons at the scene and the blustering on Facebook, that this was all enough to show clear intent of real violence. It was totally unexpected to me. Everyone here is aware of the blustering. When you saw the headlines or got the text saying the building had been breached, if you were stunned as I was, then you hadn't taken it that seriously either. It's very easy to call the Super Bowl after the fact.

The noose could have been created by a real psychopath, but the event end totally peacefully and in context, it was just a symbol. Or it could have been created as a symbol, but end up doing the deed. There are many possible scenarios, and we tend to determine intent by the actual context as it really unfolds.

[Meadowchik]

well here's the thing. The line is a fine one between angry rhetoric and real-world mob action. collective action is determined by people, but people are in turn, determined by collective action.

How much are people just venting, and how prepared are they to go all the way? For instance, that QAnon neighbor of mine kept talking about killing Democrats and how he's looking for a super truck to outfit in road warrior mode. But at the same time, he's overly sensitive -- he might snap, but he also might back down when rubber hits the road because he doesn't have the heart to hurt anybody. He's very kind to his dog, and I've seen him open a 5$ bottle of designer water he had for himself to give another person's dog to drink because he was worried about it. 75% he'd buckle under pressure.

Showing up with a noose is symbolic and an expression of anger, and the guy who built that noose might be like my neighbor, very sensitive and feelings easy to hurt, and he just wants to show the world how pissed he really is. Same with many of those who brought weapons -- muscle flexing. A nation filling with people muscle flexing has a chance at revolution by intimidation and bravado, without action ever really happening. That's probably been the hope of Trump and other corrupt politicians like Pence and Cruz who are 100% willing to lie to win.

On the other hand, a few might really be hoping to have a war. But just look at those guys going all social media, getting pictures of themselves smiling at a Senators desk or looting historic items -- it's a big game. This isn't a mob of intended killers.

When I was at BYU in the 90s, a group of BYU students got pissed at a toe truck driver towing somebody's car (tow truck guys can be real pricks), they pulled him out of the car and beat him up.

Most of the folks at the riot didn't know they would be breaching the building. Okay, so here you have a symbolic noose, a bunch of people getting their stress out calling for Pence's death, the president sending obvious signals to get violent, the president's lawyer calling for combat, and now, security shows up and gets into it with a few hotheads. Most of those hotheads hadn't really intended on breaching the building, but they get into it with security (have you ever seen a mosh pit at a rock concert and dudes fighting with staff security?) and before they know it they've broken the line.

Now they're in the building. Now some guy who is the quiet type, no gun, who doesn't really know who he is, spots Pence. In the rush to look good to his peers, he rushes to confront Pence and they argue. Another guy sees Pence refusing to admit that he was wrong, this other guy has zip ties for cuffing. Well, when he paraded into the chamber swinging the ties around he was doing no more than the guy sitting at the Senator's desk and smiling. It's a big game. But now that he's here, and a very real Pence giving lip to his buddy, we should at least make him think about what he's done and restrain him; and to think, he was the guy who got him!.

But a restrained Pence refuses to admit that he's done anything wrong.

Well maybe, they ought to take him out to that noose, not because they would ever seriously hang they guy! My God. But for the symbolism and intimidation -- to flex and show this coward how "1776" they really are. Well, the guy who made the noose might tuck tail and stand back at that point, but somebody else might be ready to step things up a notch, and the noose is there?

Years ago, at the local bank branch near my home, an unarmed guy tried and failed to rob the branch (or I can't remember exactly what he'd tried) but a rookie cop was in the area and confronted him. That guy wasn't planning on killing anyone that day, but a gun was on the cop's belt, the cop got in his face, and so he grabbed the cop's gun and killed the cop.

I agree with the officials saying they didn't expect violence, and I disagree with the media saying that because of all the weapons at the scene and the blustering on Facebook, that this was all enough to show clear intent of real violence. It was totally unexpected to me. Everyone here is aware of the blustering. When you saw the headlines or got the text saying the building had been breached, if you were stunned as I was, then you hadn't taken it that seriously either. It's very easy to call the Super Bowl after the fact.

The noose could have been created by a real psychopath, but the event end totally peacefully and in context, it was just a symbol. Or it could have been created as a symbol, but end up doing the deed. There are many possible scenarios, and we tend to determine intent by the actual context as it really unfolds.

Re tow truck story. One just like that happened at BYU when I was there in the 90s. Crown Apartments. I called the police.

[Gadianton]

wow -- I was at BYU in the 90s. I cannot remember if it was before or after my mission though.

[Meadowchik]

wow -- I was at BYU in the 90s. I cannot remember if it was before or after my mission though.

To be fair, the towing companies were a total scourge south of campus for years. The incident I reported was 96-97.

[Gadianton]

That had to have been it, then. small world.

They indeed were garbage. I was employed with an apartment complex doing this and that and these guys knew my name. This one guy would drive his truck into the parking lot, stop and get out, and start walking around screaming my name. So I'd run out of the apartment and he'd start pushing me to identify violators and I'd find some way to get out of it.

[Meadowchik]

That had to have been it, then. small world.

They indeed were garbage. I was employed with an apartment complex doing this and that and these guys knew my name. This one guy would drive his truck into the parking lot, stop and get out, and start walking around screaming my name. So I'd run out of the apartment and he'd start pushing me to identify violators and I'd find some way to get out of it.

Mob mentality is absolutely a thing. I've used that story as an example too. I'm convinced no one of those students would have acted the same alone.