Trumpist Terms of Surrender

[honorentheos]

The article is timely in that I was thinking about whether or not we were in an intractable situation where the expectation is for unconditional surrender or, as I see Biden's posture, attempted reconciliation. So it was interesting to read the position and conditions on which total surrender might be accepted.

There are conditions I agree with completely, not for purposes of surrender but as necessary to undo significant harms. The first, that politicians stop feeding the election fraud lie and publicly acknowledge Biden won, is a big one.

But there is misplaced confidence in having secured victory in the article I find shocking. George W. Bush left office with the country in economic meltdown and disapproval levels from folks on the Right that I didn't believe was possible. But I saw my first "Miss Me Yet?" billboard less than 4 months later. Biden is inheriting problems as great or greater than Obama and we are almost guaranteed to see hard times ahead. We face tough economic challenges, a pandemic that is on fire and revealing new variants now just as the vaccine roll out is trying to gather momentum. Climate change, nuclear proliferation, unrest in the middle east, an ascendant China, a belligerent and emboldened North Korea, and who the hell knows how consequential the Russian hack will prove...we just had a national Dunkirk moment, not the Doolittle Raid. We are a long ways from Tokyo Bay. What lies ahead is struggle not a victory lap. I think we need to assess that on both sides we are fighting ourselves as the world moves to take advantage of our disarray. Rick Wilson may have accurately captured the outrage of about half the nation, but he misses widely on assessing what leverage this outrage has purchased. And it has a bit of the Boogaloo bravado in it that disregards how dangerous - really, misery-inducing dangerous - the language of total surrender-or-else is when the opposition is still plenty strong and feeling backed into a corner rather than defeated.

[Some Schmo]

...it ... disregards how dangerous - really, misery-inducing dangerous - the language of total surrender-or-else is when the opposition is still plenty strong and feeling backed into a corner rather than defeated.

This is pretty much what I had in the back of my mind while reading it. Trumpistan may be completely defeated, but they certainly don't know it yet. Reality is not one of their strengths.

[DrW]

...it ... disregards how dangerous - really, misery-inducing dangerous - the language of total surrender-or-else is when the opposition is still plenty strong and feeling backed into a corner rather than defeated.

Rick Wilson and the rest of the Lincoln Project (LP) leadership team were Republicans when Trump was elected. The LP founders should be considered as Washington insiders mainly concerned with Republican leadership that went hook line and sinker for Trump. I think that Wilson is simply telling Republican politicians, especially at the Federal level, that there can be no return to unity or true bipartisanship until there is reconciliation.

Without enabling traitors at the federal level like senators Hawley, Cruz, Scott and others, as well as some 140 Republican representatives in the house, not to mention Trump himself, the rightwing fringe groups would not have had the cover or credibility to mount the insurrection. They would have remained, as they have for years past, largely disaffected and ignored misfits. Trump and the Republican Congress enabled the insurrectionists. They are the ones to whom Wilson was directing his recommendations.

At Wilson's wholly appropriate example of the Japanese surrender in WWII, it was not ordinary Japanese citizens who stood on the deck of USS Missouri. It was not the rank and file soldiers and sailors who had been on the front lines. It was the emperor himself and top Japanese military leaders.

Same applies here. What Wilson is saying, I believe, is that every single Republican legislator who stood publicly against certification of the electoral college vote must admit that the election was free fair and valid, and apologize for their seditious behavior, or be removed from office.

No doubt a hopefully small minority of the public, largely evangelical Christians, will remain as delusional and dedicated Trumpists. Without elected enablers at the federal level, the risk they represent to society can be managed.

[Some Schmo]

Hey DrW, I agree with your assessment of Wilson's intent with his article. I guess the problem I see with it is these GOP "leaders" are not leaders at all, but spineless followers, led by the ignorant whims of their base. If the base still thinks the war can be won, you know for sure the GOP pols aren't going to lead them to the truth. Wilson was talking to the biggest pieces of crap in government, and the least likely to do what's right for America.

[honorentheos]

...it ... disregards how dangerous - really, misery-inducing dangerous - the language of total surrender-or-else is when the opposition is still plenty strong and feeling backed into a corner rather than defeated.

Rick Wilson and the rest of the Lincoln Project (LP) leadership team were Republicans when Trump was elected. The LP founders should be considered as Washington insiders mainly concerned with Republican leadership that went hook line and sinker for Trump. I think that Wilson is simply telling Republican politicians, especially at the Federal level, that there can be no return to unity or true bipartisanship until there is reconciliation.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the Lincoln Project and am somewhat sympathetic to their aims to return the Republican party to one that is more traditionally conservative. I've also noted elsewhere on this board that I'm suspect of many of their leadership's strategic abilities, too. Why? Well, it goes back to Stephen Schmidt of the LP acknowledging early on that the Trump movement was a political monster the GOP created intentionally. They, including he as a political advisor and one of the people responsible for getting Sarah Palin on the national stage, intentionally stoked hate of liberals and pushed government being the enemy to motivate voters. But he admits they knew all along that this was built in lies, that to actually govern meant compromise, that government programs were necessary and not the evil tax wasters they publicly denigrated. They just thought no one was dumb or reckless enough to let the genie out of the bottle, so to speak, and then Trump came along with zero regard for the norms that were keeping things in check.

So the LP is fighting a monster they helped create. Good for them. But I don't think it's wise to lose sight of the fact they were willing to create the monster in the first place.

Folks like Cruz and Hawley are opportunists who, having seen that the monster gives power, are an extension of this past and will urge it forward rather than try to coral and disassemble it because now that it's loosed and Trump showed it was not political suicide to use and manipulate it.

They, and the monster, aren't governed by norms and Rick Wilson is misguided in believing the point has been made that the monster is too destructive to try to control.

But there's more to what he's saying where I completely disagree. See, he seems to be arguing for total surrender without compromise. Where have I heard the LP members argue for no compromise before? Oh, yeah. In creating the very monster we are now dealing with causing chaos.

I think Biden is closer to the real need in seeking to heal as much as is possible, if unlikely, but also to find those among the GOP who will work with them and against the Trump monster. To demand capitulation is to paint those very people he needs into a box where they aren't yet obligated to stand. I think the result would be even more divisive and destructive. And frankly the LP isn't following their own demands regarding their own role getting here because they can't. They would just lose any influence they have among conservatives who prefer the Bush party to the Trump party.

[honorentheos]

I'd also point out that I use my friends and family on Facebook to read the room if you will. And while I've seen mostly wide spread disgust with Trump and distancing from the violence on the 6th, there are some who still support Trump. And the majority don't think Democrats are trust worthy, either. The fact is, a more intelligent and conservatively familiar version of Trump could easily regain the majority of support in the party and take it in a more populist authoritarian direction and be seen as a hero curing the party of what Trump allowed it to become...and then the sun will have set on democracy in the US.

Plus, we are watching the left break into pieces similar to the way the right did with more populist and norm-breakint attitudes. Disruption is popular and one shouldn't get lost in treating the problem as a binary one.

[honorentheos]

To give flavor regarding what I mean, here's something making the rounds on Facebook among many of my friends and family members who are traditional conservatives who believe God has a plan and favors the US:

Today is January 20th 2021 I am making this post so it will show back up as a future memory on my timeline.........No need for negativity, I censor the same as Mark Z.
Today is 9 days after Biden electoral confirmation. Gas before the election was $1.95per gallon, deisel $2.49 per gallon.. Interest rates are 2.25 percent for a 30 year mortgage. The stock market closed at 30829.40 though we have been fighting COVID for 11 months. Our GDP growth for the 3rd Qtr was 33.1 percent. We had the best economy ever until COVID and it is recovering well. We have not had any new wars or conflicts in the last 4 years. North Korea has been under control and has not been testing any missiles. ISIS has not been heard from for over 3 years. The housing market is the strongest it has been in years. Homes have appreciated at an unbelievable rate and sell well. And let’s not forget that peace deals in the Middle East were signed by 4 countries—unprecedented!
Unemployment sits at 6.7% in spite of COVID.
#Biden takes over today. Let's see how great the New Guy is.

Copy and paste this i did.

[honorentheos]

That's not language a politician reads and thinks they have no choice but to comply with the terms of total surrender. It's why we risk 2022 seeing the Congress flip and either Trump or a Trump surrogate on the GOP ticket in 2024.

[DrW]

That's not language a politician reads and thinks they have no choice but to comply with the terms of total surrender. It's why we risk 2022 seeing the Congress flip and either Trump or a Trump surrogate on the GOP ticket in 2024.

Trump himself may well be in prison by 2022, and the chances of him running in 2024 are vanishingly small. Now that Mitch has turned on him, and Pelosi has stated publicly that he is an accessory to murder, Trump will almost certainly be convicted in his Senate trial and then banned from federal office for life. Not kidding - hide and watch.

As has been noted, in the good ole' days, someone who planned for and incited sedition, especially at the seat of government and involving murder, would have been taken out and shot. I think you underestimate the well justified anger on the mainstream and left side of the divide and the power that can be, and will be, brought to bear to reduce the threat.

There was a report this morning that the leader of one of the Q-anon Telegram sites, with 35,000 participants, has told his group that it's over. It's time to recognize that they were had. They should recognize Joe Biden as president and move on.

Here is a link to a similar and more recent report.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/qanon-be ... ae62fe3d10
_____________________________

ETA.

"It's all over but the pouting." MeDot Org just started a thread on the subject of Q-anon surrender and disappointment.

[honorentheos]

That's not language a politician reads and thinks they have no choice but to comply with the terms of total surrender. It's why we risk 2022 seeing the Congress flip and either Trump or a Trump surrogate on the GOP ticket in 2024.

Trump himself may well be in prison by 2022, and the chances of him running in 2024 are vanishingly small. Now that Mitch has turned on him, and Pelosi has stated publicly that he is an accessory to murder, Trump will almost certainly be convicted in his Senate trial and then banned from federal office for life. Not kidding - hide and watch.

As has been noted, in the good ole' days, someone who planned for and incited sedition, especially at the seat of government and involving murder, would have been taken out and shot. I think you underestimate the well justified anger on the mainstream and left side of the divide and the power that can be, and will be, brought to bear to reduce the threat.

There was a report this morning that the leader of one of the Q-anon Telegram sites, with 35,000 participants, has told his group that it's over. It's time to recognize that they were had. They should recognize Joe Biden as president and move on.

Here is a link to a similar and more recent report.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/qanon-be ... ae62fe3d10
_____________________________

ETA.

"It's all over but the pouting." MeDot Org just started a thread on the subject of Q-anon surrender and disappointment.

I'll say the same thing to this I said to Res regarding the likelihood of a State having their electoral votes challenged causing the Senate and House to vote on acceptance. I hoped he was right it wouldn't happen because laws and norms should have stood in the way. But also saying while I hoped he was right and I was wrong, I didn't think I was going to be and it turned out even worse than merely seeing the votes challenged.

I hope I'm wrong and everyone comes together to reject the threat to democracy Trump and his legacy represents to such an extent the Republican party is remade into an actual, function political party. I really do. But I don't think the evidence suggests that's likely.