Shut the “F” Up, Hillary

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_Some Schmo
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Re: Shut the ____ Up, Hillary

Post by _Some Schmo »

canpakes wrote:
Markk wrote:If Sanders or Warren get in we will be in a instant depression...especially if it is Sanders.

I love how often my Republican friends and family always say this, about any Democratic Party candidate. Because, we saw how the economy turned into a dumpster fire for 8 years after Obama was elected, and the stock market didn’t rise above 9000. Not until January 20, 2017, apparently.

Part of the issue is that the American right doesn't know what various terms mean, like socialism, communism, democracy, and hypocrisy. I'm not sure they know what the words decency, selflessness, objectivity or critical thinking mean either.
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_Doctor Steuss
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Re: Shut the ____ Up, Hillary

Post by _Doctor Steuss »

canpakes wrote: Because, we saw how the economy turned into a dumpster fire for 8 years after Obama was elected

I would like to note that the socialist Barrack HUSEIN Obama caused a recession a year before he even got elected. That's how dangerous liberal ideology is to economic prosperity.

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_honorentheos
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Re: Shut the ____ Up, Hillary

Post by _honorentheos »

Markk wrote:So what is the goal of the party?

Did you see the movie Zoolander?

https://youtu.be/WHrn_pHW2so

Ok.
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_honorentheos
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Re: Shut the ____ Up, Hillary

Post by _honorentheos »

Markk wrote:
Some Schmo wrote:Do you still entertain the truth claims of the church, or have you heard enough by now that you don't have to?

I've read plenty enough of brietbart to understand where they're coming from. I will not pay attention to an outfit drowning in ____. I agree with your sentiment, but I've looked into this Biden thing. It's a crock of ____ only given credence by extremists on the right.


I have to get to work, spent too much time here today already. I make my own schedule and I will be working late to make up for lost time, but do me a favor...check out the quotes and follow the end notes I gave to doc, and as a fellow independent tell me there are no issues there? If you get the time do oyour own study on Hunter, Joe's brother James, and his sister...like I wrot eif have of it is true, it is not good.

Markk, the book accuses the Bidens of benefiting from having connections. Halliburton/Cheney but not that bad types of stuff.

You then excuse Trump outright using his office to take in millions because, to paraphrase you, at least he gets stuff done. In the past you've even said it didn't matter so much if it was good or bad in the end.

I don't think you have this issue figured out yet you present it as your central concern with Democrats. You might take what Can has been saying as good advice to let your thoughts bake a little longer before pulling them out and handing them around the room. Just something to consider.
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_huckelberry
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Re: Shut the ____ Up, Hillary

Post by _huckelberry »

honorentheos wrote:
Markk wrote:So what is the goal of the party?

Did you see the movie Zoolander?

https://youtu.be/WHrn_pHW2so

Ok.


The goal of the Democratic party is to build and maintain the social context for American freedom and prosperity.
_honorentheos
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Re: Shut the “F” Up, Hillary

Post by _honorentheos »

I don't think it was a good question. Had Markk been reading my posts he would have picked up on the belief I hold that the Democratic party is at historic levels of diversity as moderates and progressives argue for the heart of the party. There isn't a goal. Nor does the GOP have "a" goal.

It was on par with Ben Stiller asking, "But why male models?" after David Duchovney just explained the villianous plot in Zoolander while answering the exact same question.

Politics doesn't distill into such convenient dichotomies so it calls into question what level of discussion is taking place? And is my time really of such little value...
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
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_EAllusion
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Re: Shut the ____ Up, Hillary

Post by _EAllusion »

Something that gets me about how the Biden position at Burisma is being used is that it is perfectly ordinary for corporate boards to have positions like this. It is the norm for corporate boards to have posts like this and it is the norm for political elites and those closely connected to them to get those positions. It absolutely is slimey, but it's slimey in a way that is routine.

I think the average American doesn't fully grasp this. When they find out that cushy positions like this are an incestuous carnival of unearned privilege and connections, it rankles their sense of fairness and it feels corrupt. That instinct is fine, but people trying to manufacture something out of the Hunter Biden instance are using that instinct to imply something is gravely wrong in this one specific instance. Like corporate board positions otherwise are normally a matter of job expertise. The people doing that manufacturing, however, do fully grasp how this actually works. They're the very people for whom these type of corporate board positions are available to. It's the water they swim in. They know how it works. It's pure cynicism.
_Bret Ripley
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Re: Shut the “F” Up, Hillary

Post by _Bret Ripley »

honorentheos wrote:I don't think it was a good question. Had Markk been reading my posts he would have picked up on the belief I hold that the Democratic party is at historic levels of diversity ...
An oldie but goodie:
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_Markk
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Re: Shut the ____ Up, Hillary

Post by _Markk »

canpakes wrote:

I love how often my Republican friends and family always say this, about any Democratic Party candidate. Because, we saw how the economy turned into a dumpster fire for 8 years after Obama was elected, and the stock market didn’t rise above 9000. Not until January 20, 2017, apparently.


I didn't say any candidate, I said Sanders or Warren, The stock market is about folks having confidence in corporations and investing in them. Sanders and Warren will declare war on wall street, and investors will put their money else where.

Obama knew this, and kept low confidence levels at bay.

If you believe that people are going to invest in companies if a candidate gets in that is going to make it much harder for them to make a profit, fine, but I certainly believe otherwise.

Among things Sanders wants to do is have the goverment make corporation give workers share and say in corporation. In large corporation and private companies he would force the companies to give the workers almost 50% of the seats...this and other things like this is insanity in my opinion, and Wall street would freak out, and most certainl stand still and see what will happen.

For this reason if a Democrat gets in, I hope it is Joe in that Wall street knows he is not going to spoil the hand that feeds him.
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_Chap
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Re: Shut the ____ Up, Hillary

Post by _Chap »

Markk wrote:Among things Sanders wants to do is have the goverment make corporation give workers share and say in corporation. In large corporation and private companies he would force the companies to give the workers almost 50% of the seats...this and other things like this is insanity in my opinion, and Wall street would freak out, and most certainl stand still and see what will happen.


Yeah, it would be bound to be disastrous. I mean, look at the heap of low-productivity wreckage that has been the German economy for the last sixty years or so. Oh ... wait

Representing workers, the German way

Most German workers are familiar with the concepts of 'works councils' and 'co-determination,' but what are they? This week in Bonn, a conference of these uniquely German worker representative systems takes place.

Deutschland München Syrischer Flüchtling als Treinee bei BMW (Getty Images/J. Koch)
German Works Councils Day — it's probably not going to set the pulses racing in the way that say, Valentine's Day, Halloween or a chocolate-egg heavy Easter Sunday might.
But as a means for understanding the distinct way in which the interests of German workers are represented, it provides a decent insight.

This week at the old German parliament building in Bonn, works councils ("Betriebsräte" in German) representing workers from across Germany are meeting for the three-day conference. There they will discuss various issues relating to working life in Germany and provide information for workers across different areas and disciplines.

A phrase that will crop up frequently is "co-determination," or "Mitbestimmung" in German. Essentially, it refers to the unique way in which workers in Germany have the right to elect their own representatives to their companies' supervisory boards.

Still awake? If so, bear with us — it might not seem like the most spellbinding topic in the world but it is certainly not an insignificant one. Germany is long established as the economic powerhouse of Europe and several economists have cited the country's distinct worker representation model as the basis for much of the country's success.
But what is a German works council anyway? How does it differ from a union? And what on earth is co-determination?

From master craftsmen to shop stewards
Germany has a lot of experience of heavy regulation within its professional spheres. From the famous guild system of Medieval times to initiatives to develop dedicated worker councils at the time of the 1848 Frankfurt Parliament and then again in the Weimar era (1919-1933), the idea that German workers should have proper representation and status has a long history.

Such noble ideals were not compatible with the totalitarian horror of the Nazi era, but in the democratic Germany that emerged after the second world war, the ideal of meaningful worker representation was imbued with even greater meaning. Work councils were restored and Konrad Adenauer's government introduced several laws aimed at improving worker rights and strengthening their levels of representation.

In 1951, coal and steel workers were given the right to elect representatives to supervisory boards, with various other forms of this so-called co-determination model rolled out across various sectors in the years that followed.

The Co-determination Act, enacted in 1976, still allows for workers in large public and private companies — those with more than 2,000 employees — to elect up to half of the members of that company's supervisory board of directors, giving workers a powerful say in how those companies are run, from overall strategy to everyday minutiae.
Then there are the works councils — the groups that will come together this week in Bonn and whose legal basis is established by the German Works Council Constitution Act.
Works councils are neither unions nor executive boards; they are representative groups drawn from a company's employee base and designed to further co-determination rights, particularly concerning matters of employee welfare.

The right to co-determination
While law does not dictate that a works council must be established by a company, workers in any private company with more than five employees are entitled to have one. The size of the council depends on the size of the company (e.g. 51-100 employees, a seven-person council).

Works councils have extensive and substantial rights, from overseeing the implementation of employment laws and rights, to issues around appointments, contract terminations and even the layout of a given workplace.

They differ from German unions in that unions are generally not made up of a company's employees and are a group that represents an industry's workers. In Germany, employers have unions too and together with workers' unions, they negotiate wages and pay scales.
While works councils are an important part of the overall co-determination model, perhaps the most influential dimension of co-determination is the right it gives workers in big companies to elect up to half the members of a company's supervisory board, and one third in a company with 500-2,000 employees.

Companies' supervisory boards make the big decisions in corporate life and German workers, via the co-determination model, have a big say in those decisions.
In Germany, large public and private companies have a supervisory board (elected by the shareholders and the workers), which in turn appoints and oversees a company's board of management, which takes care of the day-to-day running of the company.

A need for change?
German workers may take such extensive levels of representation for granted but the models used in the country are not typical of other rich economies — plenty of British and American observers have cast envious glances towards the German system over the years.
To what extent the high level of worker influence accounts for Germany's economic success is debatable, though. Academic studies on the subject differ, but the majority of research suggests co-determination and works councils are positive, particularly when it comes to raising productivity.

The model has its critics though. Some, such as Reiner Hoffmann, chairman of the German Trade Union Federation (DGB), say it is becoming outdated, particularly given that increasingly fewer companies are fully covered by co-determination provisions.
Others see the system as entrenching the privileges of long-term workers at the cost of less secure employees, again, something that is possibly out of step with the realities of a modern labor market.

The system may need some kind of an upgrade, but its essence — that German workers should have a meaningful stake in their companies' decision making processes — is surely here to stay.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
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