Gunnar wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:39 am
Jersey Girl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:40 am
I have no idea why I just read this.
I don't believe that God will protect me from the Covid 19. I believe that God created people who have the passion for science and research who have developed the knowledge and skill to advise me, and that God expects me to (well) use the brain He gave me and the advice from people far smarter than myself and the material and medical choices that have been made available to me just as much as He wants me to make smart use of the environment and every other aspect of human life and living it that has been made available to me.
I don't believe that God is using Covid 19 to punish any one group of people. I believe that God allows us to encounter such things as pandemic and that we humans reap the benefits or bear the consequences of our individual and collective choices.
I read a headline today or yesterday (?) that said only 1 in 5 Americans who are eligible to get vaccinated have actually been vaccinated. I find that horribly embarrassing and sad. I'm sure that a small percentage of those who are eligible are actually ineligible due to severe reactions to vaccines. I don't understand why the rest of "us" doesn't care that "we" should be moved to protect those ineligible few by getting vaccinated ourselves.
You don't have to believe in a god to understand the principles I've stated here. All you have to know how to do is
think.
I'll read this tomorrow and see if I made any sense!
My guess as to why you read the above is that you are one of the most rational, fair-minded, eager to learn and compassionate people I have ever encountered. You don't tend to let your belief in God lead you into irrational, anti-science or "holier than thou" delusions or bigotry.
My eyes went straight to that post for some reason. I wanted to offer a differing point of view from a believer.
The Bible warns against pride and haughtiness (arrogance). The New Testament, in particular and overall (where Jesus is reported to have entered human history), teaches love, kindness, gratitude, honesty, generosity, perseverance, patience (I suck at patience), speaking in temperate ways (I suck at that, too), not giving railing for railing (still sucking) and in general offers guidelines on how we are to treat and engage with our fellow human while trying to emulate the heart of the living Christ in this world.
None of that has
anything to do with say, a Westboro Baptist Church showing up at funerals with placards "God Hates Fags", or ignoring the gifts and talents of others (science and research or even the development of the computer I'm posting with) and their contributions or breaking the law of the land as we are seeing today. Some of us are looking at our belief and the Bible for discernment. Example: Is Rand Paul a provocateur and a liar for purposes of self interest, instead of doing the job as a public servant that he was hired to do?
By their fruits ye shall know them...what does he actually accomplish besides to turn attention on himself and try to cause chaos?
God is not the author of confusion. I could go on but that's not the topic of the thread.
People here, for example, who don't hold a belief in God try to use their formal and self education, and ability to reason and think critically. I simply add scripture and prayer to that process with God as my final fact checker.
I can't say that I know with absolute certainty whether or not God or gods exist, though I strongly suspect that they don't. What I am fairly sure about, though, is that if there is a just and loving God, he would not have created us as beings that are inherently incapable of discovering truths about the nature of the universe and how it works, thus what evidence we have managed to discover about the real world should be compatible with what true religion (if there is any such thing) claims to have received via divine revelation. We know that there are innumerable, mutually contradictory religious beliefs and doctrines claimed to be supported by absolutely infallible divine revelation. This is why I say in my signature line, "No precept or claim is more suspect or likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority."
I can't disagree with any of your above. I would extend it to say...that if there is a just and loving God who created us as beings who are capable of discovering HIM, then I see no reason why he wouldn't have created us to discover truths about his creation as well. People misuse religion the way they misuse everything else for self gain and status, including
other people.
Religious leaders and would-be Prophets are fond of warning us to beware of the teachings of men, and this is good advice, because we mortals have made a lot of mistakes, and there have always been dishonest charlatans, both religious and otherwise relentlessly trying to take advantage of the gullibility and weakness of others, but far from convince that there are or ever have been teachings available to us that are not of men. Some teachings of men are better than others, and a lot of mistaken ones have been disproved and discarded along the way. I am firmly persuaded that there is no more reliable way than the scientific method to detect and discard the false and mistaken ideas, even though science and scientists themselves are not absolutely infallible.
The Bible actually issues those warnings. I am not well familiar with other types of scriptures so I don't know. I assume that some of those warnings have to do with keeping people in the group and not always for pure purposes. I have to go back to the fruits. Are the fruits of such persons based on self interest, gain, status, greed, power, and build up of personal wealth or are they contributory to humankind as a whole?
I think my focus is always on contribution. Making a deposit in the lives of others, not withdrawals. We have the ability to end homelessness, food insecurity, and improve access to health services. We have the ability to work to reverse climate change. We just don't do it. We, as a society, spend our time selfishly looking out for number one and trying to arm wrestle the other guy with words of rhetoric instead of pooling our efforts and wealth for the betterment of all...even ourselves.
Thanks for your feedback! Yes, I do like to learn.