This debate is driving me nuts.

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
Post Reply
_Bob Loblaw
_Emeritus
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:26 am

Re: This debate is driving me nuts.

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

beastie wrote:Who suggested that republicans are racists nuts? I certainly didn't, and am beginning to get irritated at the implication that I did.


I did not mean to imply that you had suggested that. You did imply that we conservatives and Republicans don't really care about the country or believe our political principles would be better for America. That bothers me.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: This debate is driving me nuts.

Post by _beastie »

Jason Bourne wrote:

For you and all the other over confident Romney haters I hope you are right. It will be hell for you all if you have to eat crow for four years or more.


my response
How have you reacted to the republicans who have obviously made it their primary goal to ensure that Obama is a one-term president, even when that entailed opposing legislation that had its origins in republican ideas? (see: ACA)

Aside from that question, of course I'll be disappointed if Romney wins. But, unlike many of our elected republicans, my primary goal isn't to keep my party in the white house, but rather to see our country do well. If Romney wins and the country does well, I'll be fine. If Romney wins and the country doesn't do well, we'll have some problems over the next four years, but in 2016 Hillary (hopefully) will be in shoe-in, and I think she would be a fine president.

I support the democratic party not because I'm blindly devoted to a party. I support them because I genuinely believe that most of their policies would be better for the country. What I want is for my country to do well. When my country does well, so do I and my family.


I'm bumping up my post with emphasis and explanation.

I was accused of being a Romney hater who would be miserable if he got elected. I defended myself by explaining that I wouldn't be miserable and wouldn't place myself in opposition to Romney and all he might tried to do from the get-go - unlike many of our ELECTED republicans.

If you all want to argue that there have NOT been many elected republicans who placed themselves in immediate opposition to Obama and every single thing he said and did, go right ahead and make that argument. I think it will be a hard argument to make. The tea party attitude infected the republican party to the extent that compromise became a bad word.

I then explained why I wouldn't be miserable if Romney were to be elected and why I would hope for the best.

I was then told I was saying that republicans don't care about their country, and somehow that spun off into people pretending that all republicans are racist nuts.

So I assumed there was some correlation between my comments and the ones that followed. I may have been mistaken.

Despite the fact that I never said, or thought, that all republicans are racist nutters I will say this. If republicans want to ensure that no one associates racist nuttery with their party, they better ask Romney to rein in his surrogates, who are going around saying incredibly offensive things like the following.

Newt Gingrich
Gingrich called Obama a “false president,” saying he has a propensity to shirk his duties.



“This is a man who in an age of false celebrity-hood is sort of the perfect president, because he’s a false president,” he said. “He’s a guy that doesn’t do the president’s job.”



Gingrich questioned whether Obama has the stamina and desire to be president.



“You have to wonder what he’s doing,” Gingrich continued. “I’m assuming that there’s some rhythm to Barack Obama that the rest of us don’t understand. Whether he needs large amounts of rest, whether he needs to go play basketball for a while or watch ESPN, I mean, I don’t quite know what his rhythm is, but this is a guy that is a brilliant performer as an orator, who may very well get reelected at the present date, and who, frankly, he happens to be a partial, part-time president.”


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... -president

John Sununu
Mitchell asked Sununu how he thought Mitt Romney did in the debates, but rather than praise Romney, Sununu opted to sharply criticize President Obama’s performance.

“What people saw last night, I think, was a president who revealed his incompetence – how lazy and detached he is and how he has absolutely no idea how serious the economy problems of the country are and how he has failed to even address them,” said Sununu.

Mitchell gasped. “Governor, I want to give you a chance to maybe take it back. Did you really mean to call Barack Obama, the President of the United States, lazy?”

“Yes,” Sununu replied without hesitation. “He didn’t want to prepare for this debate. He’s lazy and disengaged.”

Mitchell paused again. “I think there certainly was a performance issue there and whether or not he was in his best form last night, a lot of people are questioning that,” said Andrea. “But I think to call the president lazy and disengaged is another whole question.”

“Whatever, Andrea,” Sununu laughed. “Whatever you want.”


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/andrea-mitch ... e-it-back/

Newt Gingrich and John Sununu, for those with short memories, are two politicians who have a long history of questionable ethics.

Has Romney reprimanded these two for these remarks, that only someone willfully blind to the dog whistles of the past century could pretend aren't racist?
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Bob Loblaw
_Emeritus
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:26 am

Re: This debate is driving me nuts.

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

In that case, I apologize, beastie. It bothers me when either side of the debate accuses the other of being unprincipled and more interested in partisanship than in our country. I am sorry I read that into your post.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: This debate is driving me nuts.

Post by _beastie »

Bob Loblaw wrote:In that case, I apologize, beastie. It bothers me when either side of the debate accuses the other of being unprincipled and more interested in partisanship than in our country. I am sorry I read that into your post.


Thank you. I apologize for getting testy as well. I hold both you and Jason in high regard, and I felt you both read things into my words that were not intended.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Re: This debate is driving me nuts.

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Ahh beastie you know I love ya! Sorry to get your gander up a bit. :wink:

Really I am not passionate about either men and I have great fear that our dysfunctional congress which is simply full of uncompromising ideologues on both sides will flush this great nations right down the toilet for the sake of power and posturing.
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: This debate is driving me nuts.

Post by _beastie »

Jason Bourne wrote:Ahh beastie you know I love ya! Sorry to get your gander up a bit. :wink:

Really I am not passionate about either men and I have great fear that our dysfunctional congress which is simply full of uncompromising ideologues on both sides will flush this great nations right down the toilet for the sake of power and posturing.


No problem. I know I get testy about politics which is why, if I listened to my better angels, I wouldn't get involved in these discussions.

There will always be ideologues, jerks, and unethical people throughout the political spectrum. But I truly think that our current problem is that one particular ideology is driving the republican party right now in a destructive way: the tea party ideology. When serious republican candidates for the presidency refuse to consider raising ONE dollar of taxes for TEN dollars cut from spending, something is very wrong. Compromise is no longer possible. When the tea party drives the republican party to refuse to raise the debt ceiling - In other words, to refuse to pay for debts already incurred - and thinks that's a good thing, something is very wrong. When Jeb Bush isn't sure even HE is conservative enough for the current republican party, something is very wrong. When the patron saint of the republican party, Ronald Reagan, would probably be viewed as a raving liberal by the current republican party, something is very wrong.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Bond James Bond
_Emeritus
Posts: 2690
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:21 pm

Re: This debate is driving me nuts.

Post by _Bond James Bond »

beastie wrote:Who suggested that republicans are racists nuts? I certainly didn't, and am beginning to get irritated at the implication that I did.


I'll say that that not small segment of the Republican electorate who continue to insist Obama isn't an American citizen are racist nuts.
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
_Bond James Bond
_Emeritus
Posts: 2690
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:21 pm

Re: This debate is driving me nuts.

Post by _Bond James Bond »

Jason Bourne wrote:Ahh beastie you know I love ya! Sorry to get your gander up a bit. :wink:

Really I am not passionate about either men and I have great fear that our dysfunctional congress which is simply full of uncompromising ideologues on both sides will flush this great nations right down the toilet for the sake of power and posturing.


This.
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
_Bob Loblaw
_Emeritus
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:26 am

Re: This debate is driving me nuts.

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

Bond James Bond wrote:I'll say that that not small segment of the Republican electorate who continue to insist Obama isn't an American citizen are racist nuts.


Really? You think the birthers are a significant segment of the Republican electorate? Maybe Fox News makes it seem that way. Like I said, we are too eager to accept stereotypes about each other. I think the problem is that the crazy people in both parties are the ones who get the most attention.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: This debate is driving me nuts.

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Bob Loblaw wrote:
Bond James Bond wrote:I'll say that that not small segment of the Republican electorate who continue to insist Obama isn't an American citizen are racist nuts.


Really? You think the birthers are a significant segment of the Republican electorate? Maybe Fox News makes it seem that way. Like I said, we are too eager to accept stereotypes about each other. I think the problem is that the crazy people in both parties are the ones who get the most attention.


Bob, the reason I ask what planet you're writing from is because you seem to be under this belief that the old dog Republicans of the 70's-90's have any meaningful representation in today's Republican party. You seem to think we attack these extremists on the Right as if they have nothing to do with today's Conservative party. But consider the facts:

I'm starting to think that the Republican Party is actually going crazy. There are the South Dakotans who want to make the murder of an abortion provider "justifiable homicide;" there are legislators in a dozen different states trying to resurrect the long-dead, never-legitimate nullification doctrine; and there's the Virginia state lawmaker who wants the commonwealth to start minting its own money.

The latest evidence of fringe nuttiness infecting the Grand Old Party? A new survey from Public Policy Polling shows that a majority of likely Republican presidential primary voters are "birthers"--they believe that President Obama was born in another country.

According to PPP's survey, 51 percent of likely 2012 GOP primary voters believe that President Obama was born in another country (which would make him ineligible for the presidency). Another 21 percent say they are "not sure" if the president was born in the United States. Or to put it another way, 72 percent of the people who will be choosing the next Republican presidential nominee are either birthers or birther-curious. - http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/rob ... ary-voters


And as far as the Obama= Muslim meme goes:


WASHINGTON — More than one in three conservative Republican voters still thinks US President Barack Obama is a Muslim, nearly four years after he won power, said a Pew Research Center survey.

"The number of Americans who say Obama is a Muslim is up since 2008, similar to 2010," senior Pew researcher Greg Smith told AFP.

Although the number of conservative Republicans who believe Obama is a Muslim stagnated between 2010 and 2012, it has more than doubled since 2008 despite the Christian church-goer's repeated affirmations of his faith. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 5d1562.2a1


So as you can see, we're not talking about fringe elements like you think.

If you really want to affect change then you should start directing your frustrations towards those nut-jobs who have taken over the Republican party, and not at those who are complaining about their ignorance. Romney has been pandering to them from the start.

And speaking of the many ways in which these Tea Party Republicans have fostered nut-job fanaticism, just yesterday a Republican on my Facebook asked me if I thought people who didn't pay income taxes should be allowed to vote. He was dead serious too.
Post Reply