Calling it "Politically Motivated"

[Chap]

We have a pretty good idea, right or wrong what Trump's plan is.

Yes we do.

If the captain of the Titanic says he is going to ram an iceberg head on, it is OK to yell "Don't do that!! You will sink the ship". There is no obligation to give the captain a route plan to reach New York, or wherever else the ship is bound.

So Biden and Harris had no plan? What is the democratic caucusses plan?

Sorry Markk - I won't play the 'let's talk about Biden instead" diversion game. The fact is that Trump's plan is highly likely to be not only a failure, but a failure in ways that hurt the US consumer. Trump should just not do it. End of.

[canpakes]

So Biden and Harris had no plan? What is the democratic caucusses plan?

Sorry Markk - I won't play the 'let's talk about Biden instead" diversion game. The fact is that Trump's plan is highly likely to be not only a failure, but a failure in ways that hurt the US consumer. Trump should just not do it. End of.

I’ll take that one on, for a single post, because that’s all that is required to dispel Markk’s myth. The Biden Administration achieved significant success with increasing American manufacturing, which was acknowledged in the link given to Markk on that last page, that he ignored:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/courtneyfi ... o-benefit/

From a White House Commerce Dept. press release, for what it’s worth: “During the Biden-Harris Administration, over 700,000 new manufacturing jobs have been created and over $910 billion in private manufacturing investments have been announced nationwide.” -

https://www.commerce.gov/news/blog/2024 ... nvestments

That doc has a pretty good recap within it of the Biden Administration’s programs and accomplishments regarding support and promotion of US manufacturing.

Markk would appreciate the sentiment expressed in this next independent report about how manufacturing built the middle class. And it’s pretty apparent that the Biden Administration didn’t sit on its hands in this regard:

https://www.bluegreenalliance.org/resou ... strations/

Here’s a largely supportive overview from the Center for American Progress, who implored the Administration to continue and improve upon what it had begun:

https://www.americanprogress.org/articl ... vestments/

Here’s a balanced FactCheck.org comparison of performance between the first Trump Administration, and the subsequent Biden Administration:

https://www.factcheck.org/2024/09/Trump ... facturing/

There most certainly was ‘a plan’, and it was working quite well.

What does Trump have? Tariffs that will saddle the middle class with a budget-busting cost increase of 25% for most of their purchases.

[Markk]

If the captain of the Titanic says he is going to ram an iceberg head on, it is OK to yell "Don't do that!! You will sink the ship". There is no obligation to give the captain a route plan to reach New York, or wherever else the ship is bound.

So Biden and Harris had no plan? What is the democratic caucusses plan?

Sorry Markk - I won't play the 'let's talk about Biden instead" diversion game. The fact is that Trump's plan is highly likely to be not only a failure, but a failure in ways that hurt the US consumer. Trump should just not do it. End of.

Asking what plan the person/s running for president against another president is not a game. It is a fair and logical question.

What is the plan of the Democratic caucus? I will listen, research it, and see if I agree with it, fully or in part.

[Chap]

There won't be another election for four years. When there is a Democratic candidate running for President in that election, you can ask that person (or their supporters) about their plans.

Till then, it is a priority to ask whether the plans enunciated by the current executive branch and already partly put into action will or will not inflict harm on the US consumer. And my goodness it seems highly likely that they will. And soon.

[Markk]

Sorry Markk - I won't play the 'let's talk about Biden instead" diversion game. The fact is that Trump's plan is highly likely to be not only a failure, but a failure in ways that hurt the US consumer. Trump should just not do it. End of.

I’ll take that one on, for a single post, because that’s all that is required to dispel Markk’s myth. The Biden Administration achieved significant success with increasing American manufacturing, which was acknowledged in the link given to Markk on that last page, that he ignored:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/courtneyfi ... o-benefit/

From a White House Commerce Dept. press release, for what it’s worth: “During the Biden-Harris Administration, over 700,000 new manufacturing jobs have been created and over $910 billion in private manufacturing investments have been announced nationwide.” -

https://www.commerce.gov/news/blog/2024 ... nvestments

That doc has a pretty good recap within it of the Biden Administration’s programs and accomplishments regarding support and promotion of US manufacturing.

Markk would appreciate the sentiment expressed in this next independent report about how manufacturing built the middle class. And it’s pretty apparent that the Biden Administration didn’t sit on its hands in this regard:

https://www.bluegreenalliance.org/resou ... strations/

Here’s a largely supportive overview from the Center for American Progress, who implored the Administration to continue and improve upon what it had begun:

https://www.americanprogress.org/articl ... vestments/

Here’s a balanced FactCheck.org comparison of performance between the first Trump Administration, and the subsequent Biden Administration:

https://www.factcheck.org/2024/09/Trump ... facturing/

There most certainly was ‘a plan’, and it was working quite well.

What does Trump have? Tariffs that will saddle the middle class with a budget-busting cost increase of 25% for most of their purchases.

So what was the plan? The first link you pasted reads, in the first sentence " The factory-building boom in the U.S. is losing steam, but the tangible results of the surge are due to be felt in the coming months and years."

This was the Chips Act, where we basically gave over 50 billion dollars of tax money as incentives for companies to produce semi conductors and hopefully by 2030 gain 20% of the semi conductor trade, which we we used to dominate in.

The bill reads in part....Only a small share of global chip manufacturing capacity is currently located in the United States (about 10% in 2020, down from 36% in 1990).8 In addition, none of the most advanced chip manufacturing capacity is located in the United States.9 In the 70's we held like 85% of it domestically.

The bill was introduced by U.S. Senators Todd Young (R-Ind.), Mark Kelly (D-Ariz.), Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), Bill Hagerty (R-Tenn.), Martin Heinrich (D-N. M.), and Kyrsten Sinema (I-Ariz.).

Is his plan to have the tax payer foot the bill to get back what we lost?

[canpakes]

What is the plan of the Democratic caucus? I will listen, research it, and see if I agree with it, fully or in part.

Why would it radically shift from what they were doing before when over 700,000 new manufacturing jobs had been created and over $910 billion in private manufacturing investments had been announced nationwide?

If Trump is smart, he’ll keep those same initiatives going, like the CHIPS Act. Of course, they’ll take credit for anything positive that continues to result from it in spite of Trump’s attempt to strangle the economy via tariffs.

Is his plan to have the tax payer foot the bill to get back what we lost?

The ball is in Trump’s court, now. Are you implying that the CHIPS Act, as an initiative to increase American manufacturing power, should be scrapped ‘because Biden’? After all of your whining about the need to increase US manufacturing power? Have you spent an entire thread or two arguing disingenuously, then?

You’re promoting a 25% tax, to be applied to almost everything you buy so that you can finance a tax cut for the top 10% of earners, which will represent $4.5 Trillion in added debt, but now you’re flinching over the cost of the CHIPS Act and a positive development for US manufacturing?

[Gadianton]

After all of your whining about the need to increase US manufacturing power?

There is no government protectionism without the government playing the role of loss leader.

Certain people have likely never seen a supply and demand curve and a representation of what happens when tariffs are imposed on a market. Supply and demand intersect at a lower output. GDP shrinks. When GDP shrinks, the measure everyone is concerned with, the deficit to GDP ratio goes up. If you spend more to subsidize, that ratio goes up, if you stifle GDP through tariffs, the ratio goes up. You're not going to balance the budget and in-source at the same time, the idea is so ludicrous that there are no words.

Spurious tariffs that shrink the economy but don't provide enough incentive for businesses to take the risk and rebuild in America are guess what? wasted money in terms of losses to GDP. In addition to hurting all the working families -- people experiencing pain for nothing.

[Markk]

What is the plan of the democratic caucus? I will listen, research it, and see if I agree with it, fully or in part.

Why would it radically shift from what they were doing before when over 700,000 new manufacturing jobs had been created and over $910 billion in private manufacturing investments had been announced nationwide?

If Trump is smart, he’ll keep those same initiatives going, like the CHIPS Act. Of course, they’ll take credit for anything positive that continues to result from it in spite of Trump’s attempt to strangle the economy via tariffs.

Is his plan to have the tax payer foot the bill to get back what we lost?

The ball is in Trump’s court, now. Are you implying that the CHIPS Act, as an initiative to increase American manufacturing power, should be scrapped ‘because Biden’? After all of your whining about the need to increase US manufacturing power? Have you spent an entire thread or two arguing disingenuously, then?

You’re promoting a 25% tax, to be applied to almost everything you buy so that you can finance a tax cut for the top 10% of earners, which will represent $4.5 Trillion in added debt, but now you’re flinching over the cost of the CHIPS Act and a positive development for US manufacturing?

What's the plan? Bernie Sanders and the WSJ called the Chips act corporate welfare.

What I am saying is that the Chip Act was a bipartisan law that is an attempt to gain back what free trade took away. I did not imply anything; I am asking you what the Democrat plan is and explained a little of what the Chips Act is.

We can go back and forth all you like, but first, what is the Democratic plan?

[canpakes]

We can go back and forth all you like, but first, what is the Democratic plan?

Looks like you didn’t read the link that had the details of what Democrats and Congress were doing during the Biden administration. Here it is again:

https://www.commerce.gov/news/blog/2024 ... nvestments

Republicans hold all of the cards now. They can either continue with these plans or ditch them in favor of their own.

So far, Trump has placed all of his eggs into the tariff basket, where Americans are asked to pay 25% more for goods so that Trump can give a tax break to the CEOs who moved manufacturing to foreign shores. You seem to be in favor of rewarding the kinds of folks that gutted the middle class. And you’re itchin’ to use middle class dollars to do it. Somewhere in all of that is a weird claim that making folks pay 25% more for their needs magically makes it easier for them to make ends meet.

It kind of sounds like a tithing sermon. : )

[Markk]

We can go back and forth all you like but first, what is the democratic plan?

Looks like you didn’t read the link that had the details of what Democrats and Congress were doing during the Biden administration. Here it is again:

https://www.commerce.gov/news/blog/2024 ... nvestments

Republicans hold all of the cards now. They can either continue with these plans or ditch them in favor of their own.

So far, Trump has placed all of his eggs into the tariff basket, where Americans are asked to pay 25% more for goods so that Trump can give a tax break to the CEOs who moved manufacturing to foreign shores. You seem to be in favor of rewarding the kinds of folks that gutted the middle class. And you’re itchin’ to use middle class dollars to do it. Somewhere in all of that is a weird claim that making folks pay 25% more for their needs magically makes it easier to make ends meet.

It kind of sounds like a tithing sermon. : )

It reads....

For more information on the Biden-Harris Administration’s commitment to revitalizing U.S. manufacturing, see President Biden’s Proclamation on National Manufacturing Day, 2024 and the Biden-⁠Harris Administration’s Progress Creating a Future Made in America fact sheet.

When I click on the hyperlinks, it reads pages not found?

So what is the plan then, and more importantly, as I have asked, what is the Democratic Plan?

During the Biden-Harris Administration, over 700,000 new manufacturing jobs have been created and over $910 billion in private manufacturing investments have been announced nationwide. As manufacturing has soared, so too has the opportunity for workers of all backgrounds to get good-paying, quality jobs.

I could easily counter with this....

https://budget.house.gov/press-release/ ... statistics

There is nothing I read in what you pasted that outlines a Democrat plan then, and certainly not now. So what is the plan, put it in your own words and we can advance from there.

One positive thing about this is that you seem to agree that we need to win back manufacturing that we lost....can we agree to that?

Your link starts out by saying " The U.S. manufacturing sector contributes $2.65 trillion to the U.S. economy, employs nearly 13 million American workers, and accounts for 10.3 percent of the nation’s GDP. "






Can we agree we should be doing better here?