Westridge & Other Schools(Formerly LDS Perceptions thread)

[_Ray A]

Eric has withheld the names of most of the contributors, but I suppose should it go further names will come out. This is the testimonial of a former staff member.

You can choose to believe that Eric is making all of this up, but that would be a classic way to shoot yourself in the foot and eventually lose all credibility.

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl's background is in Early Childhood Education teaching. She is duty-bound to report abuse, and has had to do it on occasion.

All of the programs that I've taught in and been adminstrator for are all licensed by DHS. I work with DHS on a regular basis. I am well familiar with rules/reg's for a variety of programs. Just FYI: The same type of licensing agency that regulates the operation of early childhood programs licenses and regulates programs such as Westridge. The licensing requirements expand to meet the needs of school agers, adults and a variety of others who are served via state licensed care and educational facilities. Depending on what types of services are offered, other and additional criteria must be met. I am a mandated reporter and am well schooled in identifying and reporting instances of child abuse and neglect. Behavior modification theory, methods and practice is part of the social and behavioral applied sciences that I referred to twice on this board. Interfacing with and accessing state agencies is part of the work I've done for 23 years, trust me, I know how the system works. No one gets more of my resume' on this board than that which I've just written.

There are at least 4 posters on this board who work in related fields, who know and understand the system, who have worked with and within the system. This is why you have harmony, Liz, Jersey Girl and especially truthdancer asking for answers.

[_Ray A]

There are at least 4 posters on this board who work in related fields, who know and understand the system, who have worked with and within the system. This is why you have harmony, Liz, Jersey Girl and especially truthdancer asking for answers.

Hopefully you can all get to the bottom of it by going to the source himself:

eric@mormongulag.com

[_Jersey Girl]

There are at least 4 posters on this board who work in related fields, who know and understand the system, who have worked with and within the system. This is why you have harmony, Liz, Jersey Girl and especially truthdancer asking for answers.

Hopefully you can all get to the bottom of it by going to the source himself:

eric@mormongulag.com

Ray...stop it.

[_Jersey Girl]

Ray,

I seriously mean no disrespect to you when I ask you to "stop it". I'm going to reply to marg's post above and I hope that you'll read my comments. I and others have made inquiry to Eric repeatedly on this board, I acted as devil's advocate for his assertions/allegations regarding his experiences at the ranch. He doesn't want to "hear" it.

Let me continue with marg's post. I hope that you read it. I am well versed in state statutes that govern the licensing requirements for the operation of a variety of care facilities.

It amazes me that when people who actually work in the field or related fields, ask pointed questions based on professional training, education and extensive experience, that people don't want to hear that either.

So be it.

I, for one, won't sit and read posts that are inaccurate without offering some level of correction.

[_Jersey Girl]

marg,

This is the only post of yours that I plan to reply to this evening. I've got a pile of work to take care of and quite frankly, I'm growing weary of these exchanges. That doesn't mean that I won't come back to it. My CAPS will be laziness, not shouting at you.

I skimmed your note Liz. When I watched the film I linked to previously to Jersey Girl, it mentioned there are exemptions for licensing alternative schools.

Westridge IS NOT simply an alternative school. It is a youth residential treatment center also licensed for foster care and education. Further, it is accredited by multiple organizations. One of the MAIN CRITERIA for accreditation by most organizations is that the facility BE LICENSENED.

If you are interested it's at around the 11:00 minute mark into it. The exemptions apply if the place doesn't accept funding, and if care is on a temporary basis.

Westridge is a RESIDENTIAL program. It is NOT a temporary care facility.

I looked up Utah and came across this http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code ... 30-008.htm. In reading it, it seems to me they might have the same provision. The 2006 PBS video said that at that time, no license was required, no training mandated, that anyone could set up an alternative school such as Spring Creek Lodge. by the way, Spring Creek just recently shut down, I don't think they were forced to. They were part of the WWASP affiliated schools.

NONE of this applies to Westridge and why? BECAUSE IT'S LICENSED BY THE UTAH DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES. The link you referred us to is a list of programs that are EXEMPT from licensing. A program that chooses to avail itself of criteria for exemption from licensing IS NOT LICENSED. Westridge IS LICENSED.

Now also to consider in Eric's case, the events happened 9 years ago, so there may be a statute of limitations.

Typically 5-7 years OR when the child knows and understands that what they experienced was abuse.

What sort of evidence could he possibly get? What sort of papers and rights did his parents sign over to the school? This is why a lawyer who has expertise in this is the only way to go as far as determining what if anything can be done by legal means.

A lawyer can't negate the statute of limitations. The lawyer can't do a damn thing for Eric but take his money. If he has no documentation or evidences or reports of current abuse...HE HAS NOTHING but a book to sell.

In a recent post he implied that he has documentation. If he has CURRENT DOCUMENTATION he should be helping the boys REPORT IT to DHS.

Why? Because if he doesn't, it's a tacit admission that he doesn't care about what is happening there right now.

But you didn't answer my question ... what abuse did Eric discuss that you think he should complain to some gov't authority about?

Whatever he believes constitutes abuse. The state statutes are easily accessible through the DHS website. This isn't some bureaucratic garbly gook that's kept under lock and key. You can access the criteria for abuse and neglect at the DHS website. That's what you do, marg. That's what anyone does. That's what the attorney will do before he informs Eric that he doesn't have a case.

The main abuse in my opinion is really the psychological, but who determines that and decides what is abusive. And what is considered legally abusive?

The state statutes for the state of Utah.

I consider forcing religion onto young kids abusive, you don't. I consider behavior modification techniques of the graded level variety which uses taking away privileges and giving back when earned by compliance has high potential of abuse but are there laws against such a program and are they necessarily abusive?

Broken record: State statutes that define and describe abuse and neglect. State statutes that LICENSE Westridge.

Once again I'll ask you what did Eric describe of his experiences in that program that you would consider legally abusive? And do you think a gov't authority would look into such a complaint...and would they look into such a complaint if it happened 9 years ago?

Let me ask YOU a question, marg. What do you think will happen to Westridge that is licensed and accredited WITHOUT reports of violation?

Here's the answer: Nothing.

What will they do with a 9 year old complaint?

Here's the answer: Nothing.

That is exactly why I and others have advised Eric for months now regarding reports and documention of current abuse

That is why you should be listening to those of us who work in related fields who are providing information on procedure.

No one sits on evidence that can be used to make a case against a facility like Westridge until they've published a book. '

No one.

All along, Eric has stated that he has a goal to shut Westridge down or was I misreading him?

You don't shut down a facility that perpetrates abuse on children by writing a book.

[_Jersey Girl]

I'm gonna jump right through the screen!

Report to whom? If utah boys ranch is exempt from licensing, then who does the report go to? Keep in mind, Westridge School is likely legally separate to Utah Boys Ranch. And what is legally required for it, is likely different. As I said I believe the Utah Boys Ranch seems to qualify for as an alternative care facility which is exempt from licensing. Do you know differently. Do you understand what care facilities are exempt from licensing?

Yes, I understand what care facilities are exempt from licensing.

Do YOU understand that a facility that has chosen to avail itself of exemption from licensing HAS NO LICENSE?

Do YOU understand that Westridge IS LICENSED?


Westridge is licensed by Utah Department of Human Services.
The reports go directly to Utah Department of Human Services or Law Enforcement.

All this talk about licensing exemptions HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WESTRIDGE.

Why?

Once more: Westridge IS LICENSED.


(I swear, marg, you are trying to pull out rules and regs that you don't understand and that I've worked with for 23 frickin' years.)




.

[_marg]

Whatever he believes constitutes abuse. The state statutes are easily accessible through the DHS website. This isn't some bureaucratic garbly gook that's kept under lock and key. You can access the criteria for abuse and neglect at the DHS website. That's what you do, marg. That's what anyone does. That's what the attorney will do before he informs Eric that he doesn't have a case.

Well since you are so knowledgable about this J.G. why don't you list what sorts of abuse he mentioned could be reported, in which something would be done about it. There is what might constitute abuse legally recognized and what might constitute abuse which isn't currently legally recognized.

What part of a behavior modification program which uses a graded level in which privileges are severely restricted initially and withheld until the child complies would be considered abusive legally? Would forced reading of scriptures be considered abusive. Would withholding of books except Book of Mormon until compliance be considered abusive? How about denial of communication with family which has been agreed to by parents contractually? How about humiliation verbally? How about humilation by restriction of talking for new kids? Humilation of wearing of blanket and tethered to rope in front of others in program? How about denial of communication allowed with outside world? And what sort of assessment is required to warrant that a kid even needs treatment?

If it was all so simple and under control with under 18 year olds legally protected from abuse why are there people involved still to get legislation passed to protect teens from abuse in residential programs?http://www.apa.org/ppo/pi/billforteens0608.html

by the way to note in that PBS video I mentioned previously which was done in 2006, for Montana at that time, there was no requirement for licensing and Spring Creek was essentially offering the same services as UBR/Westridge. In the video it mentioned about some school in Utah shipping the kids off to Montana to avoid legal pressures of legislation. It is therefore likely that laws have changed in Utah since Eric was there and that licensing may be required in Utah. However that is no guarantee that various abuses don't occur because as far as the laws are concerned some actions may not be considered abuse.

Now your gripe is that Eric should be complaining to Gov't authority on behalf of current kids there. I doubt very much he has evidence of abuse of current kids there other than what they tell him or he hears through the grapevine. His web site can aid in getting information out to kids, can work as a means to those recently out what their rights are if they were abused, but only as long as it is clearly understood what constitutes legal abuse. However just because something isn't legally abusive doesn't mean it isn't abusive, and the web site might help determine what kids have experienced and of those experiences what is and is not considered legally abusive under current laws.

The benefit of the web site is that it can serve as a communication center for all those interested or involved with possible abuse at Westridge. His book is a separate issue, if he wants to write about his experiences that's his business. I see no problem with a lawyer getting involved if a lawyer can make a case whether it be a class action one or for any particular individual including Eric.

So J.G. basically you expect Eric to contact gov't offices on behalf of others, yet you've not made it clear what constitutes abuse, and what sort of evidence by him would be required, if he did.

You don't shut down a facility that perpetrates abuse on children by writing a book.

He's also raising awareness via the web site. He and some friends have held some protests at a function at the school. He's likely had contact with a lawyer.

[_Jersey Girl]

Well since you are so knowledgable about this J.G. why don't you list what sorts of abuse he mentioned could be reported, in which something would be done about it. There is what might constitute abuse legally recognized and what might constitute abuse which isn't currently legally recognized.

marg,

Had you read my posts and exchanges with Eric, you'd already know that I've played devil's advocate for his allegations more than once on this board. And what I've attempted to demonstrate to him in those cases was that he may have nothing at all to make a case on. I've also attempted to encourage him to get information from the inside of Westridge.

He doesn't want to hear it.

What exactly do you think the purpose is of what he's doing? The posts, the you tube series, the protests, the website and his board?

Want to know what those are without evidence, documentation and reporting?

Unsubstantiated allegations.

That is to say, he's got nothing. I've tried to demonstrate that to him multiple times and again, he doesn't want to hear it. Nobody but Eric is going to care what allegedly happened to Eric 9 years ago if it's not taking place today. And if it's not taking place today, all of this is much ado about nothing.

[_marg]

Nobody but Eric is going to care what allegedly happened to Eric 9 years ago if it's not taking place today. And if it's not taking place today, all of this is much ado about nothing.

I haven't argued that Eric has a legal case, that's for him to find out by speaking with a lawyer.

Jersey Girl please answer my questions, what constitutes abuse legally in these places? I've been to the Utah DHS site and I see nothing which specifies what is considered abuse in them. I listed some examples and asked you whether they would constitute as abuse, since you claim knowledge in this area.

What other people not just Eric are interested in doing is raising awareness and having pressure put on U.S. Gov't to improve legislation which would increase child protection in these facilities as it currently stand. There is no point in reporting abuse which is what you want Eric to do for others, if it is not considered illegal.