This debate is driving me nuts.

[_EAllusion]

I'll say that that not small segment of the Republican electorate who continue to insist Obama isn't an American citizen are racist nuts.

Really? You think the birthers are a significant segment of the Republican electorate? Maybe Fox News makes it seem that way. Like I said, we are too eager to accept stereotypes about each other. I think the problem is that the crazy people in both parties are the ones who get the most attention.

In 2011, a solid 28% of Republicans thought Obama was a native born US citizen. 51% did not. The rest were unsure.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49554.html

Granted, these were primary voters who tend to run more ideologically extreme. Still, it clearly is a significant chunk of the party. It was the majority of them. I haven't seen a poll on this particular subject in recent months, but I'd be incredibly surprised if even 60% of Republicans thought Obama was a US born citizen.

[_Kevin Graham]

Granted, these were primary voters who tend to run more ideologically extreme. Still, it clearly is a significant chunk of the party.

Indeed. As I said before, I can't seem to have a decent conversation with any of my reasonable Republican friends on Facebook without numerous people from their friend's list jumping in to declare Obama a non-American Muslim. This also happened with my recent exchange with Scott Pierson. The level of hostility and ignorance is really astounding.

[_beastie]

Who suggested that republicans are racists nuts? I certainly didn't, and am beginning to get irritated at the implication that I did.

I'll say that that not small segment of the Republican electorate who continue to insist Obama isn't an American citizen are racist nuts.

Oh, I agree with this. However, there are elements within the republican party who do not fall into that category and who would rightfully be insulted by the generalization.

From an outsider's perspective, it seems to me that there are several factions of the republican party right now.

1. Traditional conservatives - these are republicans from my youth. Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford. These people are mainly economic conservatives, who may be a bit more socially conservative but aren't particularly passionate about that aspect, and wouldn't welcome government intrusion into private lives. I would love to see this faction become more dominant in the republican party again. I think it would make our country healthier.

2. Dixiecrats - these are less-educated people, often southerners, who migrated to the republican party during the civil rights era. They are truly racist.

3. Evangelicals - This is the group that Karl Rove recognized as a previously untapped source. Although they often embrace the idea of economic conservatism, their dedication to that ideal is sparse at best. They're mainly concerned with the social movements in this country and think that putting God back in government would solve our problems.

4. Tea Partiers - this group is pretty mixed up, as far as I can tell. They seem to be extreme ideologues. I can't quite figure them out. There are some extreme evangelicals among them, but also some libertarians (but why aren't they just libertarians?) But this is the group that demands no compromise from republicans currently, and is the group I blame for congressional dysfunction at the moment.

I don't want to lump people who fall into group 1 with the rest. I think Jason and Bob fall into group 1. I am open to those ideas. I think economics is a messy business, and there are so many varied "expert" opinions that it is confusing. I don't want our country to be ruined in the future by an unmanageable deficit, but nor am I convinced that placing the deficit as our number one priority during a vulnerable economic recovery is a great idea, either.

I am not open to the other three groups, and believe they have damaged the republican party.

[_Jason Bourne]

No problem. I know I get testy about politics which is why, if I listened to my better angels, I wouldn't get involved in these discussions.

There will always be ideologues, jerks, and unethical people throughout the political spectrum. But I truly think that our current problem is that one particular ideology is driving the republican party right now in a destructive way: the tea party ideology. When serious republican candidates for the presidency refuse to consider raising ONE dollar of taxes for TEN dollars cut from spending, something is very wrong. Compromise is no longer possible. When the tea party drives the republican party to refuse to raise the debt ceiling - In other words, to refuse to pay for debts already incurred - and thinks that's a good thing, something is very wrong. When Jeb Bush isn't sure even HE is conservative enough for the current republican party, something is very wrong. When the patron saint of the republican party, Ronald Reagan, would probably be viewed as a raving liberal by the current republican party, something is very wrong.

Beastie I will likely not vote for the republican congress woman who represents my district. I sent her an email during the October 2011 debt crisis. I told her I expected her to compromise and not hold fast to any ideology. We cannot afford it I told her. Her response was to send me an editorial she wrote where she said she ran on a no new tax pledge and she would not back down from it. I wrote back and told her I could not support rigid positions. The sad thing for me is her opponent is the democrat that was a one termer before her. I met him at a town hall meeting. he is a light weight. She is in her first term as well. The race two years ago was very close and it was number of days after the election before it was decided. So I want to vote against her but boy the democrats really could not find someone better than the lat guy?

[_beastie]

No problem. I know I get testy about politics which is why, if I listened to my better angels, I wouldn't get involved in these discussions.

There will always be ideologues, jerks, and unethical people throughout the political spectrum. But I truly think that our current problem is that one particular ideology is driving the republican party right now in a destructive way: the tea party ideology. When serious republican candidates for the presidency refuse to consider raising ONE dollar of taxes for TEN dollars cut from spending, something is very wrong. Compromise is no longer possible. When the tea party drives the republican party to refuse to raise the debt ceiling - In other words, to refuse to pay for debts already incurred - and thinks that's a good thing, something is very wrong. When Jeb Bush isn't sure even HE is conservative enough for the current republican party, something is very wrong. When the patron saint of the republican party, Ronald Reagan, would probably be viewed as a raving liberal by the current republican party, something is very wrong.

Beastie I will likely not vote for the republican congress woman who represents my district. I sent her an email during the October 2011 debt crisis. I told her I expected her to compromise and not hold fast to any ideology. We cannot afford it I told her. Her response was to send me an editorial she wrote where she said she ran on a no new tax pledge and she would not back down from it. I wrote back and told her I could not support rigid positions. The sad thing for me is her opponent is the democrat that was a one termer before her. I met him at a town hall meeting. he is a light weight. She is in her first term as well. The race two years ago was very close and it was number of days after the election before it was decided. So I want to vote against her but boy the democrats really could not find someone better than the lat guy?

I hope sensible republicans like you eventually take back the party.

[_Bond James Bond]

I'll say that that not small segment of the Republican electorate who continue to insist Obama isn't an American citizen are racist nuts.

Really? You think the birthers are a significant segment of the Republican electorate? Maybe Fox News makes it seem that way. Like I said, we are too eager to accept stereotypes about each other. I think the problem is that the crazy people in both parties are the ones who get the most attention.

I'd put their number at 5% (for the Birthers) at the minimum but probably approaching 15-25% for closeted racists.

[Tator]

I'd put their number at 5% (for the Birthers) at the minimum but probably approaching 15-25% for closeted racists.

Obviously republicans like Gingrich and Sununu think the racist numbers are high enough to warrant their recent dog whistles.

[_Bond James Bond]

I'd put their number at 5% (for the Birthers) at the minimum but probably approaching 15-25% for closeted racists.

Obviously republicans like Gingrich and Sununu think the racist numbers are high enough to warrant their recent dog whistles.

Gingrich's and Sununu's dog whistle talking points are the best recent examples but the Birtherism of 2009 and 2010 when the Tea Party was really going full bore.