Charlie Kirk shot at UVU in Orem

[Kishkumen]

If you're looking for a Trump voter angry enough at Charlie Kirk to kill him, you're going to be looking for a long time. Use your common sense, the only people that hate Charlie Kirk enough to kill him are leftists. They are the only ones celebrating the murder.

Do you just type the first thing that comes into your mind without asking yourself what relationship it has with the facts? People to the right of Charlie Kirk hated Charlie Kirk. Look up "Goyper War." I don't know that Robinson was a Groyper, but I know you are full of crap because clearly it is not only "leftists" who hated Charlie Kirk enough to kill him.

[ajax18]

but I know you are full of crap because clearly it is not only "leftists" who hated Charlie Kirk enough to kill him.

How many white supremacist have been assasinating people lately. I've seen three militant transgender homosexuals (although the media attempted to hide their ideology and manifestos for years). I've seen militant black people killing white people for no discernible reason other than the color of their skin or DeCarlos's baseless claim that Irina used the "N word," hence he was justified in retaliating violently (a leftist doctrine). And I've seen radical Islamic terrorists killing any Jew they might run into all around the world while chanting Mamdami's slogan, "Globalize the intifada." These are all factions of the Democrat party, each with specific justifications and permission structures for the lies they tell and the murders they commit.

Look at what Nick's actual statement after Charlie Kirk was assasinated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTkulVJyVe4

Show me where the Groyper's have killed any mainstream conservatives. Admittedly I don't know much about Nick because it was only recently that I've seen people quoting him on youtube. He's been nearly censored out of existence. I appreciate his unapologetic statements on rights being tied to responsibilities. i.e. if you don't work and are a net tax payer, you shouldn't be voting. That's just common sense and yet people like myself who have come to this conclusion are labeled as extremists for it. I can't even say it out loud in real life without fear of violent retaliation. But Nick isn't afraid to say it. But I'll never understand the far right's hatred of the Jews. It makes no sense to me. Nick isn't even a Trump supporter anymore.

[Chap]

[...] I appreciate his unapologetic statements on rights being tied to responsibilities. i.e. if you don't work and are a net tax payer, you shouldn't be voting. That's just common sense [...]

Our hard-working ancestors in the UK as well as the USA, and in many other countries too, struggled for years for the right of adult human beings, who (through no choice of their own) have been born into a particular society and must live their lives in it, to have a say in what that society can do to its members. One of the barriers they had to overthrow was that of property and income qualifications. To them it seemed, well, "common sense".

Going right back to democracy in ancient Athens, what gave people a vote (apart from their gender) was simply the fact of being free-born Athenians, subject to the laws and liable to be called on to fight to defend the city. The idea of an income qualification would have been received by the Athenian man in the street with derisive scorn.

[Xenophon]

Not sure which of the different Kirk threads to throw this into, so here we are.

I've been doing some thinking about the very different reactions I'm seeing to this from folks in my everyday life. Even before the additional arguments around things like who is "celebrating" and the motives of the shooter there was a much stronger visceral reaction than I'd seen from these same people around a slew of other violent acts over the years. After a little digging, I think I really underestimated how impactful having actual footage of the shooting was on the overall narrative and our reactions to it. So often when it comes to these sorts of things, we experience them at arm's length (or often further). Rarely do we get such clear, immediate, and graphic footage. Even a few people I know who were trying to avoid it were inadvertently exposed on social media.

This isn't the first time horrid violence has been available for the generic public to see. Some of y'all are chronically online enough to likely have seen beheading videos or any other manner of "gore porn", for lack of a better term. This one feels different though, as previously you had to be looking (at least a little bit) whereas here it was nearly unavoidable.

The morbidly curious person in me has to wonder if a school shooting had such clear and graphic video evidence of what the children were experiencing if we couldn't get more engagement on solutions. The cynic in me wonders if now we'll just be further desensitized to these kinds of acts... forever changing a public psyche to shrug these kinds of things off.

[canpakes]

Not sure which of the different Kirk threads to throw this into, so here we are.
The morbidly curious person in me has to wonder if a school shooting had such clear and graphic video evidence of what the children were experiencing if we couldn't get more engagement on solutions. The cynic in me wonders if now we'll just be further desensitized to these kinds of acts... forever changing a public psyche to shrug these kinds of things off.

I don’t remember which school shooting it was, but some years back I ran across pictures showing the aftermath, including several small children literally disfigured by the gunfire. It was shocking, but what else would I have honestly expected to see from the situation? Perhaps the imagination prefers to sanitize how this would appear, preferring to substitute relatively tidy imagery from movies in place of the actual horrific results.

Like you, I’d like to imagine that such a thing would move more people to action rather than the casual shrug and offer of ‘thoughts and prayers’, but I suspect it would end up merely desensitizing more people than stirring them into meaningful action.

[Gadianton]

The morbidly curious person in me has to wonder if a school shooting had such clear and graphic video evidence of what the children were experiencing if we couldn't get more engagement on solutions.

I don't think so. I haven't seen the full video and I never will see it. I've seen a number of sanitized fragments from conservative gun and survivalist channels on YouTube that are convinced the FBI is lying to them. They have their takes on why the FBI narrative is impossible and lean on their years in the military and whatever else. One of the latest claims is the bullet deflected off the microphone. Some of these channels could be used by the defense to claim it couldn't have been the current suspect if they wanted to go a route less travelled.

My point is that some of the most hardcore conservatives out there are watching this video 24-7 emotionlessly, picking out all the details the FBI is missing and revealing the truth. Conspiracy culture is one of the huge drivers of conservativism and this is just more material for weaving fantastic stories. You remember how many times we watched (maybe I'm slightly older) the Challenger explode? I was home sick that day. Granted, that wasn't graphic, but the same psychological barriers seem to be coming into play. So I think your second point is more likely, especially when combined with the usefulness of the footage to fuel conspiracy theories.

[Kishkumen]

How many white supremacist have been assasinating people lately. I've seen three militant transgender homosexuals (although the media attempted to hide their ideology and manifestos for years). I've seen militant black people killing white people for no discernible reason other than the color of their skin or DeCarlos's baseless claim that Irina used the "N word," hence he was justified in retaliating violently (a leftist doctrine). And I've seen radical Islamic terrorists killing any Jew they might run into all around the world while chanting Mamdami's slogan, "Globalize the intifada." These are all factions of the Democrat party, each with specific justifications and permission structures for the lies they tell and the murders they commit.

Look at what Nick's actual statement after Charlie Kirk was assasinated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTkulVJyVe4

Show me where the Groyper's have killed any mainstream conservatives. Admittedly I don't know much about Nick because it was only recently that I've seen people quoting him on youtube. He's been nearly censored out of existence. I appreciate his unapologetic statements on rights being tied to responsibilities. i.e. if you don't work and are a net tax payer, you shouldn't be voting. That's just common sense and yet people like myself who have come to this conclusion are labeled as extremists for it. I can't even say it out loud in real life without fear of violent retaliation. But Nick isn't afraid to say it. But I'll never understand the far right's hatred of the Jews. It makes no sense to me. Nick isn't even a Trump supporter anymore.

How many things will you throw at the wall in your effort to deflect? I almost expect you to break into a Blade Runner "tears in the rain" monologue. When the law and the facts are not on your side, you pound the table. Indeed, your entire post is a bunch of slobbering, incoherent nonsense. What on earth is a "transgender homosexual"? And please, give us some details about these cases you are using somehow to support your position about an assassination that was not perpetrated by a transgender person.

???????

Then you go off on another rant about Black people, Muslims, etc.

Clearly, this is just another one of your bigoted tirades about groups of people you viscerally hate.

Then, you go out of your way to defend the actual Neo-Nazi, Nick Fuentes. So much like Donald Trump sitting on that couch at FoxNews.

A bunch of fascist turds.

[Kishkumen]

Our hard-working ancestors in the UK as well as the USA, and in many other countries too, struggled for years for the right of adult human beings, who (through no choice of their own) have been born into a particular society and must live their lives in it, to have a say in what that society can do to its members. One of the barriers they had to overthrow was that of property and income qualifications. To them it seemed, well, "common sense".

Going right back to democracy in ancient Athens, what gave people a vote (apart from their gender) was simply the fact of being free-born Athenians, subject to the laws and liable to be called on to fight to defend the city. The idea of an income qualification would have been received by the Athenian man in the street with derisive scorn.

Indeed. It is not surprising that our resident historical illiterates would not know or appreciate these things. Roman citizens, too, were able to vote regardless of their property or lack thereof.

And yet they whine about Western civilization not being taught in schools. It is. And they never paid attention.

[Whiskey]

Not sure which of the different Kirk threads to throw this into, so here we are.

I've been doing some thinking about the very different reactions I'm seeing to this from folks in my everyday life. Even before the additional arguments around things like who is "celebrating" and the motives of the shooter there was a much stronger visceral reaction than I'd seen from these same people around a slew of other violent acts over the years. After a little digging, I think I really underestimated how impactful having actual footage of the shooting was on the overall narrative and our reactions to it. So often when it comes to these sorts of things, we experience them at arm's length (or often further). Rarely do we get such clear, immediate, and graphic footage. Even a few people I know who were trying to avoid it were inadvertently exposed on social media.

This isn't the first time horrid violence has been available for the generic public to see. Some of y'all are chronically online enough to likely have seen beheading videos or any other manner of "gore porn", for lack of a better term. This one feels different though, as previously you had to be looking (at least a little bit) whereas here it was nearly unavoidable.

The morbidly curious person in me has to wonder if a school shooting had such clear and graphic video evidence of what the children were experiencing if we couldn't get more engagement on solutions. The cynic in me wonders if now we'll just be further desensitized to these kinds of acts... forever changing a public psyche to shrug these kinds of things off.

Interesting, Xenophon. When the Nice Shot Apologists were out in force turning “amazing shot” into a team anthem, you sat on your hands. But now you step in with a grave meditation on footage, desensitization, and the public psyche. Convenient timing.

You call it morbid curiosity; I call it selective courage. You found the words to wonder about society at large, but not the backbone to address the chorus right here that treated assassination like sport. That silence brands you louder than this post ever will.

If you’re genuinely worried about the public shrugging off violence, maybe start with the shrugging happening under your own moderation and apologetics. Because until you do, this isn’t reflection — it’s deflection. Gravitas after the fact doesn’t erase silence when it counted.

[Kishkumen]

Interesting, Xenophon. When the Nice Shot Apologists were out in force turning “amazing shot” into a team anthem, you sat on your hands. But now you step in with a grave meditation on footage, desensitization, and the public psyche.

LOL!!! The irony. I see a lot of handwringing and pseudo-serious blather from one person: you. And yet your grotesquely biased distortions give you away as a singularly unserious and irresponsible person cosplaying as a moral, sober adult.