Trump's War on Children

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

So asylum seekers need not apply...unless they do so while hanging out somewhere else until given permission to enter the country huh?

So, the game you're playing by default makes all immigrants asylum seekers since they're ostensibly leaving a bad situation for a better one.

Crazy take, brother.

- Doc

[_Jersey Girl]

Sessions statement 7 May said they would separate adults from children crossing in between ports of entry. Are you saying that separations are happening AT ports of entry? Do you have a link to a report about that because I've not seen one.

Jersey Girl, can you post an official statement or link to a doc for that specific circumstance? I’ve not seen it yet and would rather refer to something from the hand of the Administration than a second- or third-hand source.

Yeah yeah. It came out of Sessions own mouth via the interview quoted below. This indicates to me that when Sessions refers to coming into the country illegally, he's talking about those coming in between instead of through POE's.

"Yes," Sessions said. "What's happening is we are having more people coming bringing children with them entering between the ports of entry, between the ports of entry illegally, and they're not, you cannot give them immunity. That's an offense. We believe every person that enters the country illegally like that should be prosecuted."

And later in the link...

"No, I don't think it's a moral right, Hugh. No, no," Sessions said. "If you come to the country, you should come through, first, through the port of entry and make a claim of asylum if you think you have a legitimate asylum claim. You shouldn't try to get across the border at some desert site, some remote site unlawfully and expect not to be promptly deported. We've caught, over the years, millions of people, and they've been promptly deported. They don't get trial in federal court."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeff-sessi ... at-border/

[_Jersey Girl]

When a person, or elf apparently, crosses the border illegally they're detained if caught. Just because Rosario claims to be seeking asylum, which I'm not sure why she didn't do it at an embassy or, you know, just stay in Mexico, doesn't make our immigration laws disappear. It's these stupid games people like you and Democrats like to play that got Trump elected. Jesus.

- Doc

I think the thing is that we can't have confidence in how the phrase "crosses the border illegally" is being defined and used. What's crossing the border illegally? Does that mean without documentation from the Ministry of Magic or does it mean trying to come in between ports of entry?

In my view, there's a boatload of sloppy reporting going on. Sessions himself makes the distinction in the interview I linked above. When he's saying if you come through illegally you WILL be separated from your children and he defines that as people NOT coming in between POE's. Is he making that distinction in practice or is he blowing smoke? In other words, are they nabbing EVERYONE crossing ANYWHERE or are they only nabbing the ones trying to cross between ports of entry?

Sessions says if you ARE coming through a POE you can apply for asylum. In that case, he says nothing about separating children.

If you are NOT coming in through a POE you will NOT be granted asylum because it's a criminal offense and you're going to be charged and prosecuted for it, and you WILL be separated from children.

Not YELLING at you, too lazy to format right now. Unless you really want me to yell at you in which case, I'll be happy to oblige. The heat here is making me silly.

[_Jersey Girl]

Here's an article that refutes Sessions' claims in the interview that I linked to and quoted, and states that asylum seekers who ARE coming through POE"s are being turned back by US border agents before they cross.

https://thinkprogress.org/sessions-says ... 71deb449e/

I freaking give up.

No, actually I don't.

[_Jersey Girl]

Alleged ( say alleged because I can't prove that it is what it purports to be) audio of children who have been separated from parents when a US border patrol agent can be heard saying:

“Well, we have an orchestra here,” the agent says. “What’s missing is a conductor.”

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/0 ... /23462128/

Mr. Border Patrol Agent?

“F”. YOU.

[_EAllusion]

Holy crap. I have the perfect solution to this.

People should immigrate legally & then no one is detained!

- Doc

Do you have any ideas about why they are crossing in between ports of entry and not directly through points of entry? I raised this question previously and no responses to it.

At least in some cases, we know they are being deliberately turned away at authorized ports of entry. This is part of a game the Trump admin has been playing that has long been the MO of hardline anti-immigration types. They argue that people need to follow lawful immigration practices on one hand, while doing everything possible to squeeze out room for lawful immigration on the other.

Though that issue does not necessarily determine if the cruelty of the response is justified. If we just started executing them, something Ajax likely favors and probably feels tantalizingly closer to with each passing day, that doesn't mean, "Well, they didn't follow the law" covers for this.

Anyway, here's some hidden audio ProPublica has acquired of the children in detention. Warning: It's mostly them wailing in a way that should cause people who haven't dehumanized them to feel serious vicarious pain. An agent mocks them while it happens.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chil ... ion-policy

The people behind this and those apologizing for it are evil and will be looked at very negatively by history.

ETA: You already posted this inbetween when I started this post and when I hit send. Sorry for the redundancy.

[_honorentheos]

So asylum seekers need not apply...unless they do so while hanging out somewhere else until given permission to enter the country huh?

So, the game you're playing by default makes all immigrants asylum seekers since they're ostensibly leaving a bad situation for a better one.

Crazy take, brother.

- Doc

Cam,

You stated that the solution to the problem of forcible separations is for people to migrate legally to the US. Currently, coming here seeking asylum is a legal way to potentially immigrate to the US. But people who are following the rules are still being forcibly separated from their children. This is well reported on as well as being central to the ACLU's cases seeking to get the Trump policy overturned. So following the rules for legal immigration as an asylum seeker would not solve the problem. In our discussion, it now seems that you are dismissing the very concept of asylum as if there were no US or international law that defined what it is, how it should be approached, and the general commitment to human rights that underlie those laws.

So either you are off in your first comment by missing how asylum seekers would be excluded from your so-called solution or you are firmly in the camp that people from Central America need not come here. Well, unless they can get a visa of some kind. Since being an asylum seeker generally doesn't follow that kind of slow, administratively intensive route because of all the reasons a person generally would qualify for asylum, one's left with the feeling your solution is really just telling them to not make their problems yours. Add to that the above which makes asylum nothing more than an attempt to circumvent US immigration law and it's looking like you and ajax have a lot in common on this issue.

[_Hawkeye]

I don't think all illegal aliens crossing the borders are asylum seekers. Obviously, many of them come alone for the sole purpose of working in the USA and then go back after they've made money for themselves and their families back in Mexico. The folks going back and forth across the border obviously aren't running from oppression. There was a period during the Obama administration when more Mexicans were going back into Mexico than were coming in.

But when you have entire families trekking across Mexico from Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala who are obviously running from oppression and trying to live a better life ... those are legit asylum seekers. And they're likely not going to have GPS or even a map to know about ports of entry. They're likely heading north until they hear people speaking English.

[Guest]

I freaking give up.

No, actually I don't.

Good Jersey! Now is not the time to give up. Now is the time to fight back. It's gone too far.

I know it's not generally good to reference the Nazi regime generally, but I can't help seeing some similarities here. If it were 1936 and we had some chance to effect a change to that horrible outcome, shouldn't we have done that? I think that is where we are now. If we don't fight it now, it will only get worse.

[_Hawkeye]

LAURA INGRAHAM (HOST): We'll be exposing the phony border outrage, which is hilarious. Oh my gosh, it's funny.

...

Do you notice how the left, like [Rep.] Adam Schiff (D-CA), that's Democrat, Adam Schiff, when he's not covering for the Mueller abuses, he's perpetuating the fraud about the border. And the U​.​S​.​ is so inhumane to provide entertainment, sports, tutoring, medical, dental, four meals a day, and clean, decent housing for children whose parents irresponsibly tried to bring them across the border illegally. OK? So we're going to be here for today and tomorrow, and we're going to expose what's happened to th​is beautiful state (sic) of San Francisco under Democrat rule.

The border lies that we've been documenting -- I've been documenting this stuff for -- since ​about ​1999, I've been talking about this border problem. Since I first really got into TV. And, of course, every year it's gotten worse until Trump came into office and said it doesn't have to be this way anymore, we don't have to allow for a slow roll​ of​ invasion of our country. It's ludicrous. We see what's happened to Europe with the role of migration through Europe, of more of an, of course, an Islamic nature. And here in the United States, we've seen welfare rolls expand, we've seen our prisons fill up, we've seen our public schools busting at the seams, we've seen local and state budgets being stretched to the limit because of the crush of translators and separate language programs​ that​ we have to offer now.

We've seen our country try to contort itself into other peoples' cultures instead of having the melting pot that made our country great. To the extent that if you -- in some parts of the country, if you don't know Spanish, and I do -- if you don't know Spanish, then you're looked at like a second class citizen. How is that America? What America is is the land of the free, the home of the brave, where we believe in the rule of law, safety, play by the rule​s​, play by the books, work hard, follow the same rules that everyone else has to follow, and you'll get ahead and you have a good shot at a good life.

But the lie factory at the border is so predictable. You know, they tried this back in 2014, the left tried the same thing.