Kavanaugh and Perjury

[_honorentheos]

It's difficult to examine the issue from this perspective with any degree of honesty, but I've wondered how I'd view it if Kavanaugh had come out and in some way had owned that the event happened, regretted causing her harm, and some how or other showed a sense of moral obligation to justice and the impacts on her. I'm not someone who views every event from a person's past as disqualifying provided the person has shown they own it and have learned from it, and more often than not am pretty quick to accept what appears to be a sincere, reparative attempt to reconcile. But I don't think the world works in such a way that he could have done that if the allegations are true and he could take ownership of it while remaining a candidate for the Supreme Court.

So that suggests as a thought experiment it is irrelevant. We're faced with a person either being falsely accused or willing to lie and further victimize a fellow human being. It is every bit about the man Kavanaugh is today.

[_Gunnar]

That said, DT, a full scope poly is a background investigation that includes a polygraph; the very thing you just said isn't reliable is the thing Ms. Ford took, adminstered by a former FBI agent coordinated through her lawyer. These kinds of background investigations often include investigative agents talking to not only past friends, but they'll then get references to other friends from those friends. I have no idea how in depth Kavanaugh's background investigation was, but I suspect it was fairly thorough based on my own experience.

Doc Cam wrote that, not me.

[_Gunnar]

Our accuser now wants, based on the strategy developed by her openly anti-trump lawyer. . .
- Doc

The fact that her lawyer might be openly anti-trump is irrelevant if the accusation is true. Besides that, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with being openly anti-trump. Given his openly corrupt, self serving actions and statements, obvious attempts to obstruct justice, demonstrable misogyny and racism, pathological lying, demonstrable willful ignorance and stupidity, lack of compassion for refugee immigrants and their children, etc., etc. there is something fundamentally wrong, dishonest and/or even ignorant about not being openly anti-trump!

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Our accuser now wants, based on the strategy developed by her openly anti-trump lawyer. . .
- Doc

The fact that her lawyer might be openly anti-trump is irrelevant if the accusation is true. Besides that, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with being openly anti-trump. Given his openly corrupt, self serving actions and statements, obvious attempts to obstruct justice, demonstrable misogyny and racism, pathological lying, demonstrable willful ignorance and stupidity, lack of compassion for refugee immigrants and their children, etc., etc. there is something fundamentally wrong, dishonest and/or even ignorant about not being openly anti-trump!

To the point you willingly destroy a man's reputation that has nothing to do with Trump's persona? Kavanaugh was like any of us at 17. We were all fumbling around with one another, and any of our actions could be twisted into a vicious #metoo. When I was a Senior in HS, I had a girl while we were in the back of a car, with my buddies up front no less (I think we were headed back from a football game, but the details are fuzzy), stick my finger in her mouth. She was trying to be sexy or something, but I was put off by it. She then began to kiss on me and then grapbbed my crotch. She eventually got inside my pants. My dudes up front cheered it on. I never consented, and I wasn't comfortable. I didn't say anything, but I certainly didn't enjoy it what with being a Mormon boy who took church seriously.

Was the girl a rapist? Was I sexually assaulted? What if this girl were a CEO today and I accused her of attempted rape? Or a judge being appointed by Trump, but I felt it was my duty to take her down? Would it be fair to destroy her life because she fumbled around with me in the back of a car one night?

This is the world we're creating now, and I'd be pretty damned careful if I were the adults who think this perversion of justice is acceptable because they have a goal in mind.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

The allegation is that Kavanaugh forced someone behind a closed door, pinned her down, and tried to remove her clothes while covering her mouth to muffle her screams. Music was turned up also turned up to drown out her screams.

If it's a false allegation it's a false allegation. Kavanaugh claims he was nowhere near her, not that his actions were misinterpreted. If that is what happened, that's attempted rape. I resent Doc claiming that's something we all did at 17. Doc may cop to committing attempted rape in his youth, but I am sure plenty of us haven't.

[_EAllusion]

Our accuser now wants, based on the strategy developed by her openly anti-trump lawyer. . .
- Doc

The fact that her lawyer might be openly anti-trump is irrelevant if the accusation is true. Besides that, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with being openly anti-trump. Given his openly corrupt, self serving actions and statements, obvious attempts to obstruct justice, demonstrable misogyny and racism, pathological lying, demonstrable willful ignorance and stupidity, lack of compassion for refugee immigrants and their children, etc., etc. there is something fundamentally wrong, dishonest and/or even ignorant about not being openly anti-trump!

Also, most of the country and the vast majority of intellectuals are anti-Trump. I know the idea is this is supposed to prove a biased agenda to take down his nominee even though that just means he will be replaced by a similar nominee. There is zero chance Republicans don't confirm someone by January. Anti-Trump witchhunts never make a lot of sense though, right? What gets me is that how people who want to make claims against Republicans have to be represented by people who have some not-anti-Trump bonafides. It's like an affirmative action program for people with bad judgment.

[_EAllusion]

CNN has a GOP focus group with a woman using a variant of Doc’s latest argument. Boys will be boys. What a terrifying argument for teen girls.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/407 ... ssion=true

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

The allegation is that Kavanaugh forced someone behind a closed door and tried to remove her clothes while covering her mouth to muffle her screams. Music was turned up also turned up to drown out her screams.

If it's a false allegation it's a false allegation. Kavanaugh claims he was nowhere near her, not that his actions were misinterpreted. If that is what happened, that's attempted rape. I resent Doc claiming that's something we all did at 17. Doc may cop to committing attempted rape in his youth, but I am sure plenty of us haven't.

That's weird EA would call me an attempted rapist. Bizarre frankly, but he's free to do so. It's also even more bizarre that he also states that if Kavanaugh was nowhere near her that it was attempted rape.

This dude is completely damned off his rocker.

- Doc

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

CNN has a GOP focus group with a woman using a variant of Doc’s latest argument. Boys will be boys. What a terrifying argument for teen girls.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/407 ... ssion=true

What's my latest argument, just so I'm tracking what you're saying? Because I have a feeling where you're dong the EA thing of creating a version of what's said, twisting it just so, and then arguing against your invented fantasy.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

The allegation is that Kavanaugh forced someone behind a closed door and tried to remove her clothes while covering her mouth to muffle her screams. Music was turned up also turned up to drown out her screams.

If it's a false allegation it's a false allegation. Kavanaugh claims he was nowhere near her, not that his actions were misinterpreted. If that is what happened, that's attempted rape. I resent Doc claiming that's something we all did at 17. Doc may cop to committing attempted rape in his youth, but I am sure plenty of us haven't.

That's weird EAllusion would call me an attempted rapist. Bizarre frankly, but he's free to do so. It's also even more bizarre that he also states that if Kavanaugh was nowhere near her that it was attempted rape.

This dude is completely ____ off his rocker.

- Doc

I did not say that if Kavanaugh was no where near her, then that’s attempted rape. I said if the allegation is true, then that is attempted rape. It’s not inexperienced teens figuring out flirting and sex.

You described Kavanaugh as “like all of us at 17” then proceeded to describe how fumbling sexual advances can be unfairly described as assault. The argument is clear. Speak for yourself Doc. Plenty of us never have nor would do what he is accused of. And if his story is true, it makes zero sense to defend him by interpreting his behavior as misconstrued sexual advance. His defense is that he wasn’t there.