Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: You're also asking, presumably, that I give up opportuntiy to someone based off the color of their skin, and you're asking me to subsidize executive order, government contracts, promotion slots, jobs, and educational opportunities based soley on skin color, gender, and probably sexual orientation, not necessarily in that order. This requires money and resources taken from my group, I guess, and handing them to other groups because you're telling me we're all in a 100M sprint and my starting line began at the 80M mark because I'm White, male, and incredibly good looking. Nevermind that due to all the aforementioned attempts at equalizing our starting points, meter by meter pushing my starting line back while pushing oppressed groups forward, I'm still guilty of having an unfair lead. Doesn't that give you pause for one moment?
Nope. Not at all. I’m not asking that. Besides, there simply aren’t that many blacks or POC in the general population to meet that list, let alone asking for that much anyway.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I suspect that I'll always be guilty of having a lead, even if my starting point is moved outside the stadium, and their starting point begins at the finish line.
You and I probably do have a lead no mattter what we or any POC does. That’s just the lottery of life having handed an advantage to us as it randomly might to any being. Not just within this country, but outside of it, as well. After all, how many billions of folks wil never enjoy the standard of living and privilege that we, as Americans, experience simply for having been born here?
That’s not anything that I feel guilty about. And how you approach that reality in your own life is up to you. But, perhaps the only ‘requirement’ that comes from this is one that’s astonishingly easy to satisfy - that being, ‘paying it forward’, and treating our neighbors with kindness and decency as often as possible, as fellow humans instead of labels loaded with assumptions.
I love your optimism. I really do. But government programs like executive order and Title IX exist to correct historic inequities. I don't see them ever going away, and in fact various other programs have been created to continue to award opportunity to minorites, women, and other oppressed groups to the detriment to my ingroup and un-prvileged minorities. The individual from my ingroup suffers because he's subject to a standard that is forever shifting its definition to ensure he's guilty for existing. This, of course, extends into virtually every arena in life now, where a White Male is expected to enthusiastically support programs and policies that actively work against his own interests, even if he grew up in extreme poverty and was Father McCarthy's plaything.
By necessity, you have to be a racist and sexist if you support the idea of White Privilege, because you view outgroups as so disadvantaged they're incapable of excellence without White paternalism.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
canpakes wrote: After all, how many billions of folks wil never enjoy the standard of living and privilege that we, as Americans, experience simply for having been born here?
That’s not anything that I feel guilty about. And how you approach that reality in your own life is up to you. But, perhaps the only ‘requirement’ that comes from this is one that’s astonishingly easy to satisfy - that being, ‘paying it forward’, and treating our neighbors with kindness and decency as often as possible, as fellow humans instead of labels loaded with assumptions.
Does anybody have canpakes phone number? Somebody hacked into his account and is posting under his name. :)
No. That rope you just picked up has been there for a while. I was going to help pull you and I to the center of the divide a bit, but I think that you keep assuming that I’m trying to string you up. ; )
honorentheos wrote: One would think he had a particular fellow in mind with a well established reputation for avoiding actual discussion.
Repeating your personal opinions about me, over and over, is your choice.
I'll pass on the rest.
Exactly.
The divide only exists because in your mind it exists. You then manifest this in your behaviour which strengthens and spreads the belief like a contagion.
When you stop believing long enough to be capable of honest engagement with those who don't share your political views, the illusion and it's insurmountability evaporates. And then it becomes people with different but sincere points of view. But until then, your insincerity makes for amusing sport given the consequence is irrelevant. You will be slave to your corrupted mindset or question it. Either way.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:FYI, I watched it. Basically, of course. And this is the very divide we're seeing manifesting across the nation and specifically on this board.
I would be interested in hearing your opinion/opinions (should you want to offer it) about this political divide that we are seeing manifest across this country - Do you personally think it can be bridged? And if yes, can you give a few examples of what you believe it might take to bridge it?
It absolutely cannot be bridged. This board is a looking mirror into the soul of this country's politics. We have a reality television star President who just fired a reality television star White House whatever-she-was waging reality television across multiple media platforms. The very reason why he was able to get into office in the first place is the very reason why the divide can't be bridged.
Our country's electorate is itself a real life parody of an uninformed electorate.
We can't bridge the divide because we don't want to do it. The idea itself is unattainable and mostly intolerable. It's absurd. Congress is us, and we hate ourselves. We don't trust our judges. We don't understand our own institutions. We're emotional, not pragmatic, and our values aren't uniform enough to give us a national identity any more.
It's akin to wanting Celtics fans and Lakers fans not only agreeing on a greatest of all-time team, but who was the best player of from one another's franchises.
So, the best smart people can do is wage realpolitik and hope the idealists don't get too much power. Basically you hope for a competent deep state.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I love your optimism. I really do. But government programs like executive order and Title IX exist to correct historic inequities. I don't see them ever going away, and in fact various other programs have been created to continue to award opportunity to minorites, women, and other oppressed groups to the detriment to my ingroup and un-prvileged minorities. The individual from my ingroup suffers because he's subject to a standard that is forever shifting its definition to ensure he's guilty for existing. This, of course, extends into virtually every arena in life now, where a White Male is expected to enthusiastically support programs and policies that actively work against his own interests, even if he grew up in extreme poverty and was Father McCarthy's plaything.
By necessity, you have to be a racist and sexist if you support the idea of White Privilege, because you view outgroups as so disadvantaged they're incapable of excellence without White paternalism.
- Doc
I get where you’re coming from. I really do. The system and programs that you mention can seem as if they are overcompensating, with nefarious intent or undue effect on some. And there will always be those grifters and cynics who seek to use those defects to their own advantage. But I don’t see that this has become truly problematic, and the current mood - both within the Trump Administration and its voter base - seems to be concerned with reducing or eliminating programs that address disparity. Unless I’m missing something?
As much as White America complains about Non-White America’s supposed preoccupation with victimhood, White America - and folks like Prager - sure waste little time in descending into the same claim for itself with far less standing to do so.
canpakes wrote:No. That rope you just picked up has been there for a while. I was going to help pull you and I to the center of the divide a bit,
Okay - I'll grab the rope. What now?
but I think that you keep assuming that I’m trying to string you up. ; )
Well, the "Ajax or Ceeboo" comment didn't exactly help - And from my view, assumptions can be seen all over the place.
I think that it’s a fair challenge. Do you sense a personal threat from the concept of white privilege? Or a social one? If so, can you give some details about that?
Ceeboo wrote: I would be interested in hearing your opinion/opinions (should you want to offer it) about this political divide that we are seeing manifest across this country - Do you personally think it can be bridged? And if yes, can you give a few examples of what you believe it might take to bridge it?
It absolutely cannot be bridged. This board is a looking mirror into the soul of this country's politics. We have a reality television star President who just fired a reality television star White House whatever-she-was waging reality television across multiple media platforms. The very reason why he was able to get into office in the first place is the very reason why the divide can't be bridged.
Our country's electorate is itself a real life parody of an uninformed electorate.
We can't bridge the divide because we don't want to do it. The idea itself is unattainable and mostly intolerable. It's absurd. Congress is us, and we hate ourselves. We don't trust our judges. We don't understand our own institutions. We're emotional, not pragmatic, and our values aren't uniform enough to give us a national identity any more.
It's akin to wanting Celtics fans and Lakers fans not only agreeing on a greatest of all-time team, but who was the best player of from one another's franchises.
So, the best smart people can do is wage realpolitik and hope the idealists don't get too much power. Basically you hope for a competent deep state.
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.