Detransitioners vs the Progressive Machine: A Legal and Cultural Time Bomb

[canpakes]

I don’t know who Pancakes is, but canpakes has you pegged. : D

Example above.

I'm going to blame that on auto correct, certainly not any fault of mine. Lol.

You had it right; the other person referred to Pancakes … who may be my evil twin.
; )

[Gunnar]

I don't have any legitimate right to weigh in on the issue, as long as it is by the consent and desire of minors in question and it genuinely contributes to their happiness, comfort and well-being.

Where do you put parental permission in your calculus?

I agree that there should be parental permission involved. What Trump is stupidly and maliciously claiming or implying is that children are secretly being given sex change operations while they are in school without their parents' knowledge or consultation and coming home the same day transgendered. This is total nonsense! Trump will tell any lie, no matter how ridiculous in the attempt to outrage the naïve into supporting his agenda. Personally, I don't think that prepubescent or children or minors should be subjected to transgender surgery. I don't think any responsible and ethical doctors would do that, unless they have serious intersex sexual abnormalities (such as hermaphrodites) that adversely affect their quality of life and can only be remedied by surgery.

[Whiskey]

Where do you put parental permission in your calculus?

I agree that there should be parental permission involved. What Trump is stupidly and maliciously claiming or implying is that children are secretly being given sex change operations while they are in school without their parents' knowledge or consultation and coming home the same day transgendered. This is total nonsense! Trump will tell any lie, no matter how ridiculous in the attempt to outrage the naïve into supporting his agenda.

Yeah. No. Some wokeass parent shouldn't be cutting off kids parts for some attention stunt either. Hell with that.

[Gunnar]

I agree that there should be parental permission involved. What Trump is stupidly and maliciously claiming or implying is that children are secretly being given sex change operations while they are in school without their parents' knowledge or consultation and coming home the same day transgendered. This is total nonsense! Trump will tell any lie, no matter how ridiculous in the attempt to outrage the naïve into supporting his agenda.

Yeah. No. Some wokeass parent shouldn't be cutting off kids parts for some attention stunt either. Hell with that.

As I added, before your reply:

Personally, I don't think that prepubescent or children or minors should be subjected to transgender surgery. I don't think any responsible and ethical doctors would do that, unless they have serious intersex sexual abnormalities (such as hermaphrodites) that adversely affect their quality of life and can only be remedied by surgery.

[Whiskey]

Yeah. No. Some wokeass parent shouldn't be cutting off kids parts for some attention stunt either. Hell with that.

As I added, before your reply:

Personally, I don't think that prepubescent or children or minors should be subjected to transgender surgery. I don't think any responsible and ethical doctors would do that, unless they have serious intersex sexual abnormalities (such as hermaphrodites) that adversely affect their quality of life and can only be remedied by surgery.

Thanks, Gunnar. We’re probably pretty close on this one.

[canpakes]

Where do you put parental permission in your calculus?

I agree that there should be parental permission involved. What Trump is stupidly and maliciously claiming or implying is that children are secretly being given sex change operations while they are in school without their parents' knowledge or consultation and coming home the same day transgendered. This is total nonsense! Trump will tell any lie, no matter how ridiculous in the attempt to outrage the naïve into supporting his agenda.

Not-so-well-known fact: the last person that Hound posted about in this thread - Katie Anderson - didn’t begin any sort of ‘transitioning’ quest until she was 18, and did not have any surgery until several years after that age. In other words, her surgery choices were her own, as an adult.

Unlike what Hound would like people to believe, Katie comes from a conservative background. She decided to transition because of her own personality traits and the fact that ‘being male’ seemed to be the better match, until it just wasn’t. It took her almost a decade to reach the decision to detransition.

She doesn’t blame ‘progressives’ or ‘Marxist’s’ for her journey. She doesn’t mention ideology. The one thing that she says pushed her along into a path to transition was … media algorithms that kept feeding stories of happily transitioned people into her video recommendations list. It wasn’t Karl Marx’s influence that made her feel like she was on the right path when considering becoming male … it was Mark Zuckerberg’s.

She has stated that there has been no blowback from the trans community after her detransition.

These are facts that some folks would prefer people to not know about, because their intent isn’t to actually tell truths but rather to push a false narrative about progressive bogeymen coming to steal your children and to turn them into something that others don’t understand, nor care to. The personal journey that these people have undergone becomes a meaningless anecdote to be pushed aside and discarded in favor of using them instead as cheap political props.

Listen to Katie talk frankly about her journey at the link below (about 22 minutes, playback speed can be adjusted);

https://engagearizona.buzzsprout.com/18 ... e-anderson

[Gunnar]

I would generally agree with that restriction but there are considerations for minors who may be exhibiting suicidal behavior.

I’d rather have most of my child here than none of my child here, were it to come down to that.

I can find myself with some agreement with both Canpakes and Whiskey here. The opening link about the detransitioning young woman presents honest concerns. It presents one person's experience and may well not fit others. Her young suicidal ideation was quickly diagnosed as a result of gender disphoria. She felt railroaded into this and the treatment resulted in serious emotional problems. It was not a solution but an aggravation of problems.

It is possible that sex change really fits some people but I think it should be obvious that that treatment should be approached with caution and enough age to make well considered decisions.

It may be obvious but worth remembering that to be born a boy or girl does not mean a person must fit narrow or specific gender roles that social convention proposes. A youth should take some time to do some being themselves. Protection to do that is I think better than hurried decisions to alter biological forms.

Thanks, Huck! As is usual with you, you provided a calm, rational and humane response with which I have no trouble agreeing!

[Gunnar]

Not-so-well-known fact: the last person that Hound posted about in this thread - Katie Anderson - didn’t begin any sort of ‘transitioning’ quest until she was 18, and did not have any surgery until several years after that age. In other words, her surgery choices were her own, as an adult.

Unlike what Hound would like people to believe, Katie comes from a conservative background. She decided to transition because of her own personality traits and the fact that ‘being male’ seemed to be the better match, until it just wasn’t. It took her almost a decade to reach the decision to detransition.

She doesn’t blame ‘progressives’ or ‘Marxist’s’ for her journey. She doesn’t mention ideology. The one thing that she says pushed her along into a path to transition was … media algorithms that kept feeding stories of happily transitioned people into her video recommendations list. It wasn’t Karl Marx’s influence that made her feel like she was on the right path when considering becoming male … it was Mark Zuckerberg’s.

She has stated that there has been no blowback from the trans community after her detransition.

These are facts that some folks would prefer people to not know about, because their intent isn’t to actually tell truths but rather to push a false narrative about progressive bogeymen coming to steal your children and to turn them into something that others don’t understand, nor care to. The personal journey that these people have undergone becomes a meaningless anecdote to be pushed aside and discarded in favor of using them instead as cheap political props.

Listen to Katie talk frankly about her journey at the link below (about 22 minutes, playback speed can be adjusted);

https://engagearizona.buzzsprout.com/18 ... e-anderson

Good points. I think the idea that there is any progressive agenda to push people experiencing some degree of gender dysphoria into gender transition surgery or that only people from progressive backgrounds ever have or give into such feelings is simply ignorant and uncharitable.

I find the story of Katie Anderson both interesting and tragic. It's unfortunate that she only considered that transitioning might be a mistake after having gone through painful and even life-threatening surgery that could not possibly be fully reversed. I think that even if I had trans-gender feelings and were familiar with Katie's story, that would cause me to be extremely reluctant to take so drastic a step as gender transforming surgery, knowing the impossibility of reversing it, should I ever later regret having done so. But, as I have previously stated, I will probably never fully understand how it would be to be convinced that one's own body is of the wrong gender. There are, after all, transgender people who reportedly have no regrets and are much happier than they were before being transformed. I would never disparage or condemn them for feeling that way.

[Kishkumen]

I don't know that there is any kind of Progressive agenda to push people into gender-affirming care, but there is, I think, a serious issue in being wary about what is financially incentivized. Create an incentive through financial reward, and you will create an industry of providers who are going to seek to make money by that means. We see it all the time in things we readily and happily tear apart, such as phony psychological therapies offered by LDS therapists (Jodi Hildebrandt), or recovered memory therapy, etc. In some ways, when it comes to the human psyche, we are still in mysterious territory, and it is difficult, when there is money to be made, to forbid things that someone is eager to make money off of and others believe they need so that they can feel relief from their emotional pain.

[canpakes]

I don't know that there is any kind of Progressive agenda to push people into gender-affirming care, but there is, I think, a serious issue in being wary about what is financially incentivized. Create an incentive through financial reward, and you will create an industry of providers who are going to seek to make money by that means. We see it all the time in things we readily and happily tear apart, such as phony psychological therapies offered by LDS therapists (Jodi Hildebrandt), or recovered memory therapy, etc. In some ways, when it comes to the human psyche, we are still in mysterious territory, and it is difficult, when there is money to be made, to forbid things that someone is eager to make money off of and others believe they need so that they can feel relief from their emotional pain.

Aha. So, not a ‘progressive’ agenda so much as a capitalist one. o_O