Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

[_EAllusion]

Mikwut's summary is somewhat inaccurate, probably owing to the dubious sources he occasionally namechecks as following

What are these dubious sources? So I can up my game. (I don't remember naming any except Matt Taibbi.)

mikwut

You've named several, and every time it was a head-slapping moment. Micheal Tracey, which you had to emphasize is a liberal, comes to mind.

[_mikwut]

Trying to create a false equivalence between the constant, raging, propagandistic dishonesty on Fox News and allied sources to what goes on in other popular media is so la-la land that I didn't think it was worth my time to try to engage it.

This is what I just don't get. I said nothing about equal. Why would it have to be equal? Would if Fox News spewed 98% vapid lies. And MSNBC and CNN spewed 50%. Your response would be to not respond because they only lie half the time? Whether it is WMDs, Afghanistan, Syria, the Russia Collusion, or the IG Report i posted about we get lies, and because Fox news lies we should wave a hand?

I gave a straight up example of the mainstream media lying to us for several years about the dossier. You decided to not make a response and rather rambled on why it wasn't covered more deeply. But my example of outright dishonesty wasn't responded to, it stands to which you made no response.

Were any of Tracey's Twitter's inaccurate? My source was the IG report itself.

mikwut

[Guest]

Fact: Trump gets busted for admitting to being a sexual predator who sexually assaults women on audio tape.

In a normal universe this would be the end of anyone's political career. But not in this case. Why? Because you have FOX news reinforcing to millions of viewers the same kind of logic mikwut and exiled are engaging in. The defense goes like this, and I've heard it a thousand times:

Trumper: "President Trump is imperfect. Is Biden perfect? Remember that time Joe Biden made a woman upset for kissing her on her head?"

Me: "Yes, Trump grabbing women by the pussy and insisting he has the right to do so because of his wealth and celebrity is the same thing as Biden kissing a woman on the back of the head!"

Trumper: "The fact that you're talking about Trump and not Biden proves you're a biased hypocrite. Trump should never have to suffer these double-standards in the media and the fact that you're persecuting him so makes me want to support him even more."

Mikwut and exiled are not defending Trump for his sexual crimes against women, but their dizzying attempts to equate FOX with CNN is basically the same kind of mental gymnastics. First thing they do is reduce the actual offense to something more generalized and innocuous. That way they can say "everyone does it." But no, this was never about media outlets simply "making mistakes." The mistakes by FOX and CNN are clearly different in terms of severity as well as their willingness to make amends when the error has been called out.

So FOX news being a literal propaganda arm for the Republican party and effectively state media that is sanctioned by the Executive branch of the United State government, is to their minds, the exact same thing as CNN making mistakes.

A couple of guys getting fired from CNN some years ago for prematurely running with a story based on a source that yet to be corroborated, apparently is the exact same thing as FOX News ordering their entire daily lineup to refer to Obamacare back in 2008 as "Government run healthcare" based on a memo from Frank Lutz. Donna Brazil (who now works at FOX!) sharing with Hillary Clinton a debate question is the exact same thing as FOX News posting deceptive graphics on a regular basis that can only be reasonably explained as an intentional attempt to deceive the public. "Same thing," because at the end of the day, no one is perfect. You cannot even begin to have intelligent conversations with these kinds of thought processes.

This is the same reason why millions of Christians are able to justify their support for someone who is basically the anti-Christ. They like to believe he's saving babies, but the fact is there hasn't been a single abortion avoided because of any judge Trump has appointed. Trump cares nothing about children obviously (putting them in cages and tearing them from their mothers), but he sold his soul to the Evangelical interest groups. They basically own him, and in exchange for their idiotic religious nuts he keeps putting on the bench, they gave him the Presidency.

[_EAllusion]

I gave a straight up example of the mainstream media lying to us for several years about the dossier.

That's not really accurate, though, and it's rather beside the point if you want to establish the trite position that lies sometimes happen in the mainstream press. If you want to establish the more ambitious claim that dishonesty is so rampant that it is fair to describe mainstream media as "incorrigibly dishonest" that's another thing entirely and not really accurate. There is an incorrigibly dishonest media to look at as an example of what might justify such a description, and sources like NYT, Washington Post, CNN, etc., for all their ineptitude, don't get anywhere near that kind of label.

Were any of Tracey's Twitter's inaccurate?

Lol. Maybe a few, Mikwut. Maybe.

[Guest]

There is an incorrigibly dishonest media to look at as an example of what might justify such a description, and sources like New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, etc., for all their ineptitude, don't get anywhere near that kind of label.

I agree with that.

[_Icarus]

I gave a straight up example of the mainstream media lying to us for several years about the dossier.

Making the assertion and demonstrating your point are the same thing. You said, "The way CNN and MSNBC for years have supported the FBI and CIA respecting the veracity of the dossier etc. is absolutely disgusting and allows for the counterpoint of Fox News to exist."

The only disgusting dishonesty I've seen about the dossier has been coming from FOX. To this day they keep lying about how that was the sole reason the investigation began. To this day they keep insisting it has all been discredited without any attempt to understand what these kinds of dossiers are and how they're produced. They never once acknowledge the fact that Steele had been a reliable source for quite some time for the FBI and that not everything in the dossier was said to be incontrovertible fact. It was a collection of data produced over a period of time, some of which turned out to be true, some of which turned out not to be true, and a lot that we'll never really know if it is true or not.

FOX News is lying about the significance of the dossier for the same reasons they lie about the significance of the whistle-blower having first hand knowledge. The dossier was irrelevant, and now that the whistle-blower's complaints have been corroborated by multiple first hand witnesses, it doesn't matter anymore if the whistle-blower had first hand knowledge. But they want to keep focusing on that and the dossier because it makes it easier to dismiss all charges. That's the disgusting dishonesty I see in their media presentations.

[_mikwut]

To this day they keep lying about how that was the sole reason the investigation began

I don't know of them saying that. I think they have been consistent that the FISA applications relied on the dossier and its sub/proto dossier's. Devin Nunes' memo was very consistent on that and I believe that is what FOX was relying on prior to the IG report.

Are you really trying to defend the dossier because some of it is actually true?

mikwut

[_Some Schmo]

I've noticed the "both sides do it" crowd is largely made up of people who recognize that the GOP and their supporting media have gone off the deep end and living enthusiastically in crazy town, but because that is the party they've been supporting so long, it's easier to say "both sides do it" rather than admit the other side is more concerned with actual facts.

In other words, you have to be right-wing biased to think both sides are equally biased.

[_mikwut]

My argument isn't the they both do it. My argument is that they are symbiotic, they are like the wwe heal and hero. When CNN and MSNBC lie about the dossier that is what fuels fox news conspiracy theories and the worse of it. If they would have properly reported that all along fox would have looked absolutely ridiculous. Instead CNN and MSNBC throw them a bone and let people say, ya know, there might be something to this after all.

miwkut

[_Some Schmo]

If they would have properly reported that all along fox would have looked absolutely ridiculous.

Man... Fox needs nobody else in the world in order to look ridiculous. Nothing any other media outlet does can control or affect how ridiculous Fox really is (all they do is provide contrast). Ridiculousness is a conscious programming decision on Fox's part.