Immigration Reform: Set to add millions to welfare rolls.

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
_just me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9070
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:46 pm

Re: Immigration Reform: Set to add millions to welfare rolls

Post by _just me »

ajax18 wrote:
And, for the record, I'm a fan of making legal immigration easier to prevent illegals from being taken advantage of.


So you leglize 20 million illegal immigrants. That's been done 3 times in the past 15 years. You're just going to get 20 million more illegals who replace them. That doesn't solve anything. It just makes the American taxpayer responsible for taking care of more people.


If all arbitrary borders on the Earth are opened/abolished there would be no such thing as illegal immigrants. :biggrin:
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_just me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9070
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:46 pm

Re: Immigration Reform: Set to add millions to welfare rolls

Post by _just me »

For those under the erroneous impression that America is doing nothing proactive about the health of Americans I give you examples:

Healthy eating and exercise is important: http://www.letsmove.gov/

My area has miles upon miles of tax funded trails, sidewalks, bike trails, skate parks, dog run areas, parks, and open space. This ranges from the national level to the community level.
http://www.npca.org

People on WIC are given credit/money towards only qualifying foods.

You'd have to live under a rock not to have heard that you should drink 8 glasses of water each day. We hear it from our elders, schools, television, doctors, internet, etc. Must be important since it is in the realm of common knowledge. Water is offered nearly free through the taps of American homes daily.

The government provides free childhood vaccines to children for diseases: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vf ... ailed.html
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Immigration Reform: Set to add millions to welfare rolls

Post by _subgenius »

The Kennedy health care bill proves that universal healthcare for Americans is a scam and a big businesses money grab. Obama thinks he can stimulate another dot com bubble, but with the health industry, but his ineptitude is showing again. Bill Clinton predicted it would occur with biochemical industry about 12 years ago. Which is likely true, however this innovation will not be downed by turning more cash over to insurance companies.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Brackite
_Emeritus
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:12 am

Re: Immigration Reform: Set to add millions to welfare rolls

Post by _Brackite »

Senators agree on immigration overhaul plan:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 5807.story

Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), who heads the Senate subcommittee that handles immigration legislation, briefed the White House on Sunday, according to a Senate aide who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

The eight senators scrambled over the weekend to come to an agreement before Obama unveiled his plan, hoping to head off any potential Republican backlash against a White House proposal and show common ground.

At a news conference Sunday in New York, Schumer noted that "the devil is in the details," but said that he and the other senators in the group had made good progress.

"I'm impressed with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle over their desire to meet in the middle. We can't pass it without both Democrats and Republicans," said Schumer, adding that he and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) had "developed a little bit of a friendship" during the negotiations.

The group has met in person five times in Washington since the November election, alternating between the Capitol Hill offices of Schumer and McCain. Participants include Democrats Richard J. Durbin of Illinois, Robert Menendez of New Jersey and Michael Bennet of Colorado, and Republicans Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Marco Rubio of Florida and Jeff Flake of Arizona.

Rubio, a conservative favorite widely seen as a potential contender for the GOP presidential nomination in 2016, was asked to join the Senate group in early December. In their discussions, Rubio focused on strengthening employee-verification provisions and improving border security before the new class of immigrants could be eligible for citizenship, a Senate aide said.


As long as GOP Senators John McCain, Jeff Flake, Marco Rubio, and Lindsey Graham are supporting comprehensive immigration reform, than I will support it. I love GOP Senators Jeff Flake and Marco Rubio.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_ajax18
_Emeritus
Posts: 6914
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:56 am

Re: Immigration Reform: Set to add millions to welfare rolls

Post by _ajax18 »

I think the immigration reform bill would be better than the status quo, but like Sean Hannity, I have very little confidence that they are truly committed to securing the border.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_huckelberry
_Emeritus
Posts: 4559
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:29 am

Re: Immigration Reform: Set to add millions to welfare rolls

Post by _huckelberry »

ajax18 wrote:
huckelberry wrote:I am sort of waiting to see if BCspace thinks many lmmigrants are of the type of people whose abstract reasoning is so underdeveloped that they are unable to grasp the advantages of multiple times the income as welfare to be had from even low paying jobs.


If there is money to be earned that is so much more than welfare, why do we have 8% unemployment in this country?

This could be a good thing. I wish social security and other programs would just fail so that we could cut our losses and start to learn that we're on our own. Politically they might get away with hiking taxes on the 1% but when common people start seeing their taxes skyrocket, the nation will repent of its ways.


Ajax, my comment was not aimed to claim that there are always available jobs. Sometimes people have to look for a period of time before they find employment. I meant to observe that most people understand that work is more attractive than welfare and will seek work. Now I realize that there are exceptions to this idea. Some people are medically emotionally or psychologically limited in their ability to work. There are people for who intoxication is a priority over work. There are people who have illegal income and do not wish to be bothered with work. There are people who are lazy.

What I have seen of illegal aliens is that they are significantly more inclined to be the people who work instead of being of those who live in moms basement lost in the land of star wars far removed from work.
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: Immigration Reform: Set to add millions to welfare rolls

Post by _Kevin Graham »

huckelberry wrote:I am sort of waiting to see if BCspace thinks many lmmigrants are of the type of people whose abstract reasoning is so underdeveloped that they are unable to grasp the advantages of multiple times the income as welfare to be had from even low paying jobs.


Bc and subgenius are trapped in the Right Wing bubble, so they are out of touch with reality. Of course anyone vaguely familiar with Hispanics know that they have a wicked work ethic.

It does our country a great service to have more of them involved in our economy. Last year my wife helped a Mexican man obtain a loan at her bank. He owns a his own business doing landscaping and general manual labor. She then asked him how much he would charge us to remove a few trees and put up a fence around our back yard. He gave her a really low price, but at the end of the three day job, decided to charge us NOTHING. Why? Because he was grateful for her help at the bank, although she did nothing really out of the ordinary beyond translate for him.

Mexicans don't offer the best price for quality work simply because they're illegals who have no choice. That's all a myth. It is their work ethic and sense of fairness that has completely escaped most American companies who care about thing but profit margins.

This notion that allowing more Hispanic into the economy would add to unemployment, is ludicrous and is based only on racist presuppositions. Frankly, I'd hate to think where our economy would be without them. They are some of the most self-sufficient, hard working people on the planet. They know how to work together as a unit too, which is something most American families lack. Most Mexican families I've encountered have numerous household members employed. They tend to work low skill, manual labor jobs, but when combining their resources they manage to do well for themselves.
_ajax18
_Emeritus
Posts: 6914
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:56 am

Re: Immigration Reform: Set to add millions to welfare rolls

Post by _ajax18 »

Mexicans don't offer the best price for quality work simply because they're illegals who have no choice. That's all a myth. It is their work ethic and sense of fairness that has completely escaped most American companies who care about thing but profit margins.


Kevin do you support the bipartisan immigration reform in Congress now?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_ajax18
_Emeritus
Posts: 6914
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:56 am

Re: Immigration Reform: Set to add millions to welfare rolls

Post by _ajax18 »

I meant to observe that most people understand that work is more attractive than welfare and will seek work.


Do you think that's true for most American people who are in the category of needing assistance now or just recent undocumented immigrants who are choosing between minimum wage in the USA or what's available to them in Latin America?

I don't think $8/hr pays much better than welfare. When you add to that that some of these low paying jobs are the most arduous, I see a lot of people who work them for a little while then simply tire out and realize that they're not gaining much by going to work. Factor in the costs of obtaining transportation to work, additional financial responsibilities, and just staying home and being able to collect a check while keeping your time/freedom seems more attractive.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_huckelberry
_Emeritus
Posts: 4559
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:29 am

Re: Immigration Reform: Set to add millions to welfare rolls

Post by _huckelberry »

ajax18 wrote:
I meant to observe that most people understand that work is more attractive than welfare and will seek work.


Do you think that's true for most American people who are in the category of needing assistance now or just recent undocumented immigrants who are choosing between minimum wage in the USA or what's available to them in Latin America?

I don't think $8/hr pays much better than welfare. When you add to that that some of these low paying jobs are the most arduous, I see a lot of people who work them for a little while then simply tire out and realize that they're not gaining much by going to work. Factor in the costs of obtaining transportation to work, additional financial responsibilities, and just staying home and being able to collect a check while keeping your time/freedom seems more attractive.


I did mention some possible people who would incline to the path you are pointing out, always seeking some way to not work. Collecting welfare includes ongoing work search requirements which are a significant annoyance to those seeking to stay home and high. But there are people always spending time to invent ways to avoid work.

In Washington state welfare family of four is 562 dollars month. work at minimum wage gross 1580.month. There are a few states, such as California and New York with higher welfare rates, most states I understand, have lower rates,
Post Reply