Hero or traitor?

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_Jutta
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Re: Hero or traitor?

Post by _Jutta »

moksha wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Most of what Snowden has claimed is tinfoil hat stuff. It's utter nonsense, but plays well to an ignorant and paranoid audience.

- Doc


Maybe your guy Zimmerman should start tailing Snowden.


Or shoot him, like he did it with this Little Afro-American youth?
“People generally quarrel because they cannot argue.” --- G.K. Chesterton
_Jutta
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Re: Hero or traitor?

Post by _Jutta »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Yup. They do a lot of cool s*** to gather intelligence. The question is are they doing illegal s***?


They did! And i mean the NSA and German Intelligence with that. No agency has any right to read my post, my email, or see, what I do at the Internet, expect, they have a judicial disposal which permits this to them.
And to get these, it needs a well-founded initial suspicion in a state under the rule of law against a single person or group.
Is the USA a democracy or a banana republic?
Get up, fight for your rights to privacy! Keep the state out of your private matters. Shows him, that this does not let you by her be liked !!!!
“People generally quarrel because they cannot argue.” --- G.K. Chesterton
_Jutta
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Re: Hero or traitor?

Post by _Jutta »

sock puppet wrote:“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” ― Benjamin Franklin.


You made a good Point. Thanks for this Quote.
“People generally quarrel because they cannot argue.” --- G.K. Chesterton
_Jutta
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Re: Hero or traitor?

Post by _Jutta »

ldsfaqs wrote:Your example is entirely FALSE.....

What the government has done is the equivalent of your "nosy neighbor" putting surveillance equipment in your home recording everything, and then putting it into a database that they can then go back to and try to essentially frame you if they want, or use against you in other ways such as blackmail, etc.
Your example is of the government tracking "public" actions, which is not entirely unreasonable (depending of course). Your "private" information is private for a reason. The government has no business looking into that UNLESS they have "reasonable cause" of a crime or the commission of a crime and then a Warrant is obtained.
That is the LAW.... not only literally but morally. The Obama admin should be put in Jail.


This was made after 9/11, and NOT at the time of the Obama Administration. And which President of the USA took responsible for that? Correct, your belovable George W. "I knew nothing" Bush.
“People generally quarrel because they cannot argue.” --- G.K. Chesterton
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Hero or traitor?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Jutta wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Yup. They do a lot of cool s*** to gather intelligence. The question is are they doing illegal s***?


They did! And i mean the NSA and German Intelligence with that. No agency has any right to read my post, my email, or see, what I do at the Internet, expect, they have a judicial disposal which permits this to them.
And to get these, it needs a well-founded initial suspicion in a state under the rule of law against a single person or group.
Is the USA a democracy or a banana republic?
Get up, fight for your rights to privacy! Keep the state out of your private matters. Shows him, that this does not let you by her be liked !!!!


Please define what they did as illegal as per US law. Please show specific examples that fall under that definition of illegality. Please contact the US DoJ rather than posting on the Internet so they can be held accountable.

Thanks.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Jutta
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Re: Hero or traitor?

Post by _Jutta »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Please define what they did as illegal as per US law. Please show specific examples that fall under that definition of illegality. Please contact the US DoJ rather than posting on the Internet so they can be held accountable.


It is not only the American law concerned but also European laws. Or is it legal for the USA to spy the European Parliament, the German Federal Government and the chancellor out? I do not want to talk about the many companies and private persons at all first. Otherwise I would have to puke.
More than it costs, this behavior of the U.S. government brings in. Obama still loses the last friends. Nobody in Europe claims to have to do with the USA at the moment and many are happy because of Snowden. The NSA is another opportunity for terrorists of the Islam to recruit supporters.
The first cases have already regarding this been reported on television in Germany.
“People generally quarrel because they cannot argue.” --- G.K. Chesterton
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Hero or traitor?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Illegalities?

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_ldsfaqs
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Re: Hero or traitor?

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Jutta wrote:This was made after 9/11, and NOT at the time of the Obama Administration. And which President of the USA took responsible for that? Correct, your belovable George W. "I knew nothing" Bush.


Actually it wasn't. The parts in question that we are complaining about was implimented during the Obama Admin. Privacy advocates were "concerned" that the Patriot Act could be abused this way during the Bush Admin, but it wasn't, and it has been now however under the Obama Admin.

Bush isn't the one who uses the IRS, who goes after Journalists, etc.
Liberals are the people who primarily abuse the law.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_Jutta
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Re: Hero or traitor?

Post by _Jutta »

ldsfaqs wrote:
Jutta wrote:This was made after 9/11, and NOT at the time of the Obama Administration. And which President of the USA took responsible for that? Correct, your belovable George W. "I knew nothing" Bush.


Actually it wasn't. The parts in question that we are complaining about was implimented during the Obama Admin. Privacy advocates were "concerned" that the Patriot Act could be abused this way during the Bush Admin, but it wasn't, and it has been now however under the Obama Admin.


Wrong,

http://www.computerbase.de/news/2013-06 ... g-der-nsa/

Original in German:


Neue Details zur Internet-Überwachung der NSA


Die US-Administration unter Barack Obama hat bis 2011 eine Vorratsdatenspeicherung betrieben, die noch aus der Zeit von Ex-Präsident George W. Bush stammte. Danach wurde die massenhafte Speicherung von Verbindungsdaten aber nicht aufgegeben, sondern durch neue NSA-Programme ersetzt, berichtet der Guardian.
Die Informationen stammen wie gehabt aus Democrat Fundus an Dokumenten, die der Whisteblower Edward Snowden an den Guardian übergeben hat. Demnach hat die NSA bis 2011 die bei der Kommunikation im Internet anfallenden Metadaten gespeichert. Dazu zählen etwa bei E-Mails der Absender, der oder die Empfänger und die jeweiligen IP-Adressen, nicht aber der Inhalt. Der Guardian verweist aber darauf, dass die Trennung zwischen Inhalten und Metadaten zwar formal einfach klingt, technisch aber nicht ohne weiteres zu lösen ist – etwa weil die Betreff-Zeile einer E-Mail bereits Democrat Inhalt zugerechnet wird.
Die Daten werden von Geheimdiensten genutzt, um Muster in der Internet-Kommunikation zu analysieren und diverse Verbindungen aufzuzeigen. Die anlasslose und massenhafte Datenspeicherung wurde von der Bush-Administration im Jahr 2001 infolge der Anschläge vom 11. September veranlasst, betraf aber zunächst keine US-Bürger. Die Metadaten von der Internet-Kommunikation wurden gespeichert, wenn es sich zumindest bei einem Teilnehmer nicht um einen US-Bürger gehandelt hatte oder die Herkunft der Teilnehmer nicht festzustellen war. Diese Vorgaben hatten aber nur bis zum Jahr 2008 bestand, danach wurden diese durch eine vom US-Kongress beschlossene Änderung des „Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act“ (FISC) aufgeweicht.
Anfangs fand die Überwachung noch ohne richterlichen Beschluss statt, doch nachdem es innerhalb der Bush-Administration zu Protesten kam, wurde der FISC-Gerichtshof involviert, der die Massenüberwachung alle 90 Tage still und heimlich abnickte. Die Geheimurteile des Gerichtshofs stehen seit geraumer Zeit in der Kritik, den Wünschen der US-Administration und US-Sicherheitsbehörden lediglich einen formalen Stempel zu verpassen. Mit der Veröffentlichung der ersten Dokumente von Edward Snowden verschärften sich die Vorwürfe nochmals.

Neue Programme, noch mehr Daten

Eine Sprecherin der Obama-Administration bestätigte gegenüber Democrat Guardian die von Bush 2001 initiierte und von Obama fortgesetzte US-Vorratsdatenspeicherung, doch die US-Regierung habe das Programm nach einer internen Prüfung Ende 2011 auslaufen lassen und nicht neu aufgelegt. Letztlich bedeutet das aber nicht, dass die NSA die anlasslose Massen-Datenspeicherung beendet hatte, sondern vielmehr das Gegenteil. Die Internet-Überwachung wurde auf wesentlich effizientere Programme umgestellt.
Dazu zählen Programme wie „EvilOlive“, das die NSA als „One-End Foreign (1EF) solution“ bezeichnet. Democrat Guardian-Bericht zufolge filtert es bereits 75 Prozent des internationalen Traffics nach Verbindungsdaten zwischen US-Bürgern und Internetnutzern, die nicht aus den USA stammen. Eindrücke von den gespeicherten Datenmengen liefert indes „ShellTrumpet“. In einem internen Report von Ende 2012 heißt es, dass die NSA innerhalb von fünf Jahren eine Billion „Internet-Metadaten“ gesammelt hat – die Hälfte davon entfalle auf das Jahr 2012.
Die Daten stammen nicht nur aus den Quellen der NSA, sondern auch aus Kooperationen mit Geheimdiensten der internationalen US-Partner. So hat die NSA etwa auch Zugriff auf die Metadaten des britischen GCHQ, der im Rahmen des „Tempora“-Programms direkt die atlantischen Unterseekabel anzapft. Dennoch klingt eine Billion Verbindungsdaten zunächst absurd hoch, allerdings haben bereits die veröffentlichten Ausschnitte vom Data-Mining-Programm „Boundless Informant“ gezeigt, dass die NSA allein im März 2013 den Zugriff auf knapp 100 Milliarden Verbindungsdaten hatte.
Zukünftig sollen die Kapazitäten für die Internet-Überwachung sogar noch ausgebaut werden, besagten die Democrat Guardian vorliegenden Dokumente. So sind etwa für den September 2013 neue Programme mit den Codenamen „MoonLightPath“ und „Spinneret“ vorgesehen.


If you want, you can translete it with the Google Translation Programme or any other source.

summary of the article:

The stock data storage of the NSA was under the Bush Administration established and operated to 2011. This information is from Snowden.
This Bush Administration did it also in the USA, at first without a judicial permission, by protests to the Bush Administration, they lifted.
At the year 2008 happend under the Bush Administration the following (original quotation from the article) under which:

".the FISC court of justice involved this one the mass supervision., all 90 days quiet and secretly allowed. The secret verdicts of the court of justice have stood for long time in the criticism to miss the wishes of the U.S. administration and U.S. security services merely a formal stamp. With the publication of the first documents of Edward Snowden the reproaches intensified again. "

An internal check of the Obama administration let the program of the NSA 2011 run out and the NSA switches her supervision programs over to evizientere programs and further sniffs.
“People generally quarrel because they cannot argue.” --- G.K. Chesterton
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