Is Astrology religion for those of us with no religion?

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_canpakes
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Re: Is Astrology religion for those of us with no religion?

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:Class, we have a special guest today who will demonstrate the "sidestep" or pivot away, so please welcome - canpakes!

*canpakes enters

canpakes wrote:Yes, you also believe in mystical rocks (be they planets or peepstones), and the concept of magical total planetary crystallization as a manifestation of baptism for inatimate objects.

Are you suddenly experiencing some kind of faith crisis in the midst of your LGBT tantrum?

Are you wanting me to confirm your assertion that folks believing in magic rocks are heading backwards in spiritual development? Or are you disappointed that your own criteria for disparagement of others can be so easily applied to yourself? Should I not take your conclusion seriously?

Your post in and of itself is an excellent demonstration of moving spiritually backwards.

Whatever your belief in magic peep stones has to say beyond that is just an added bonus.
_Dr. Shades
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Re: Is Astrology religion for those of us with no religion?

Post by _Dr. Shades »

MeDotOrg wrote:Personally I feel astrology is a lot more accurate than it used to be. Probably computers and telescopes, but my horoscope is always correct.

Do you mean astronomy?

Some Schmo wrote:Horoscope sounds synonymous with peephole.

Do you mean peepstone?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_Chap
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Re: Is Astrology religion for those of us with no religion?

Post by _Chap »

MeDotOrg wrote: ...spiritual alternatives ...


... You are referring to astrology, no? I've asked this question before on this board: what on earth does this word 'spirituality' mean in such a context? Astrology, per se, has no specifically religious content at all. I don't want to turn this into a seminar, but if you read writing from the last period when astrology was still seen in Europe as being worth serious scientific attention, you will see that it was presenting itself as on equal terms with other sciences. See my earlier post.

MeDotOrg wrote:Personally I feel astrology is a lot more accurate than it used to be. Probably computers and telescopes, but my horoscope is always correct. It just keeps getting better and more accurate, because it is based on solid science. ...


The improvements made in calculating the apparent positions of the heavenly bodies against the background of the stars seen from earth over the last three hundred years or so have been quite small from any practical point of view,* and certainly from the point of view of the kind of data used by astrologers.

Anyway ... it seems that your subjective sense that your horoscope is 'accurate' may not have a great deal of evidential value. See:

What do you mean, “test” astrology?

Possibly the most detailed test of astrology using this type of method, was performed by Shawn Carlson. His paper, “A Double-blind Test of Astrology”, was published in the peer reviewed scientific journal Nature, in 1985. The interesting thing is that the San Francisco chapter of the National Council for Geocosmic Research recommended the 28 professional astrologers who took part, and (with Carlson), designed the tests. They also predicted, in advance, what they would consider to be a successful test.

Two tests were performed:

Test #1: Astrological charts were prepared for 83 subjects, based on natal data (date, time and place of birth), provided by the subjects. Each subject was given three charts: one chart based on their own natal data, and two charts derived from natal data of other people. Each subject was asked to identify the chart that most correctly described them. In only 28 of the 83 cases, the subject chose their own chart. This is the exact success rate expected for random chance. The astrologers predicted that the subjects would select their own chart more that 50% of the time.

Test #2: 116 subjects completed California Personality Index surveys and provided natal data (date, time and place of birth). One set of natal data and the results of three personality surveys (one of which was for the same person as the natal data) were given to an astrologer who was to interpret the natal data and determine which of the three CPI results belonged to the same subject as the natal data. In only 40 of the 116 cases, the astrologers chose the correct CPI. As with test #1, this is the exact success rate expected for random chance. The astrologers predicted that they would select the correct CPI profiles in more that 50 per cent of the trials.

Conclusion by Carlson:

"We are now in a position to argue a surprisingly strong case against natal astrology as practiced by reputable astrologers. Great pains were taken to insure that the experiment was unbiased and to make sure that astrology was given every reasonable chance to succeed. It failed. Despite the fact that we worked with some of the best astrologers in the country, recommended by the advising astrologers for their expertise in astrology and in their ability to use the CPI, despite the fact that every reasonable suggestion made by advising astrologers was worked into the experiment, despite the fact that the astrologers approved the design and predicted 50% as the "minimum" effect they would expect to see, astrology failed to perform at a level better than chance.

"I have not yet received a serious scientific challenge to the paper. The newsletter of the American Federation of Astrologers Network published a response in January (1986). I was very disappointed to see that it largely consists of personal attacks. Its few substantive criticisms are attributable to ignorance of the experiment, of the CPI, and of basic scientific methodology."


Edited to add:
* Of course the improvements that have taken place are very useful in ensuring that space probes can be put in orbit round Mars ... but we are talking astrology here
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_subgenius
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Re: Is Astrology religion for those of us with no religion?

Post by _subgenius »

"canpakes, they loved your presentation - encore?"
*applause as canpakes returns to stage
canpakes wrote:Whatever your belief in magic peep stones has to say beyond that is just an added bonus.


viewtopic.php?p=1127061#p1127061
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
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_Some Schmo
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Re: Is Astrology religion for those of us with no religion?

Post by _Some Schmo »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Some Schmo wrote:Horoscope sounds synonymous with peephole.

Do you mean peepstone?

No. Why would I mean that?

You know what a scope is, right? And I imagine you're familiar with the word "whore."
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_canpakes
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Re: Is Astrology religion for those of us with no religion?

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:"canpakes, they loved your presentation - encore?"
*applause as canpakes returns to stage
canpakes wrote:Whatever your belief in magic peep stones has to say beyond that is just an added bonus.


viewtopic.php?p=1127061#p1127061

*canpakes soothes subgenius’s chagrin at having been forced to look into a mirror, by rubbing magical olive oil on subgenius’s head. *
_Maksutov
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Re: Is Astrology religion for those of us with no religion?

Post by _Maksutov »

canpakes wrote:*canpakes soothes subgenius’s chagrin at having been forced to look into a mirror, by rubbing magical olive oil on subgenius’s head. *


Alas, you can't cure stupid. Even with magic oil. :lol:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_subgenius
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Re: Is Astrology religion for those of us with no religion?

Post by _subgenius »

canpakes wrote:*canpakes soothes subgenius’s chagrin at having been forced to look into a mirror, by rubbing magical olive oil on subgenius’s head. *

*with a perplexed glance toward canpakes, subbie sheepishly asks* - "um, rubbing?"
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
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Re: Is Astrology religion for those of us with no religion?

Post by _subgenius »

Maksutov wrote:Alas, you can't cure stupid. Even with magic oil. :lol:

lawd knows you tried, to the point of hair-loss, but blessed did you ever try....at least your are blissful.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_canpakes
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Re: Is Astrology religion for those of us with no religion?

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:*canpakes soothes subgenius’s chagrin at having been forced to look into a mirror, by rubbing magical olive oil on subgenius’s head. *

*with a perplexed glance toward canpakes, subbie sheepishly asks* - "um, rubbing?"

Stay calm. We’re only using the larger head for this.

Does the magic oil’s processing power not work if we don’t follow strict guidelines on application?
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