The Great CAGW Debate

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_canpakes
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _canpakes »

Water Dog wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:So, for a start, please post a link to every post in the other thread in which you were trolling or "playing the fool" as opposed to making a serious factual argument.


My response is that suggestion is not the spirit I'm going for here. I expect that I will post some of those things as the conversation develops.


Let's just retstate this one for clarity's sake:

"I expect that I will post some of those things (trolling or "playing the fool" as opposed to making a serious factual argument) as the conversation develops."

Why would anyone want to take you seriously when you say this, after claiming that you want to seriously debate the issue?
_Water Dog
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Water Dog »

canpakes wrote:Let's just retstate this one for clarity's sake:

"I expect that I will post some of those things (trolling or "playing the fool" as opposed to making a serious factual argument) as the conversation develops."

Why would anyone want to take you seriously when you say this, after claiming that you want to seriously debate the issue?

And here is canpakes, right on queue, doing her part to contribute to Chicken Run Culture. Thanks for altering what I said to misrepresent it like that. Very honest. This place, SMH.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Res Ipsa »

For the record: WD made a number of posts in the other thread attacking climate science. His excuse for wanting a do over in this thread was that in the heat of argument he trolls or plays the fool. He’s now refused the opportunity to identify which, if any, of his posts in the other thread constituted trolling or playing the fool. Keep that in mind when he tries to offer excuses for his previous posts on the subject.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_canpakes
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _canpakes »

Water Dog wrote:
canpakes wrote:Let's just retstate this one for clarity's sake:

"I expect that I will post some of those things (trolling or "playing the fool" as opposed to making a serious factual argument) as the conversation develops."

Why would anyone want to take you seriously when you say this, after claiming that you want to seriously debate the issue?

And here is canpakes, right on queue, doing her part to contribute to Chicken Run Culture. Thanks for altering what I said to misrepresent it like that. Very honest. This place, SMH.

This is what you're saying, if you are responding to RI's statement. If you have an issue with it, then learn to structure your responses appropriately. ; )

As for 'Chicken Run Culture', you're the fellow afraid of UN overlords, marriage between gay folks, and heathens "taking away your special day" by daring to say, "Happy Holidays" to you instead of "Merry Christmas". And you've spent the thread so far complaining about how bad people are bullying you with snark, while you go for inane insults here.

Did you actually have anything to discuss about the topic of the thread? Can you even define the parameters of what you want to debate? Or should I just expect more whining?
_Chap
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Chap »

Why is so much time being wasted by talking with or about Water Dog?

He has no basis of evidence or skills that make his opinion on climate change worth a moment's consideration. What he does have is boundless confidence in whatever ideas he has picked up from right-wing websites, and a total absence of doubt or second thoughts of any kind.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Chap wrote:Why is so much time being wasted by talking with or about Water Dog?

He has no basis of evidence or skills that make his opinion on climate change worth a moment's consideration. What he does have is boundless confidence in whatever ideas he has picked up from right-wing websites, and a total absence of doubt or second thoughts of any kind.


I know, right? It's like he dropped an equation into the conversation that no one questioned, the OP couldn't explain, and no one cared if the equation could be used, at all, to further the point being made on the thread.

bUt 0nl4 CON-s3rvetuv$ pl#y “F” Fuc3 g@m3s!!

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Water Dog
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Water Dog »

Res Ipsa wrote:For the record: WD made a number of posts in the other thread attacking climate science. His excuse for wanting a do over in this thread was that in the heat of argument he trolls or plays the fool. He’s now refused the opportunity to identify which, if any, of his posts in the other thread constituted trolling or playing the fool. Keep that in mind when he tries to offer excuses for his previous posts on the subject.

For the record: RI seems to be a pathological liar, as demonstrated by this comment. I tried. He cannot muster enough good will to even be honest about what I've said in this short thread. I did not say any of the things that he is right here claiming I said. All he can do is continuously construct straw men that he then takes great sadistic pleasure in triumphantly knocking down.

I genuinely do not understand the thought processes that play into this sort of pathology. It's really weird. He really is like a Mormon apologist. Clutching his Nephite pearls. Some sort of deep seated insecurity drives his need to believe. But at the same time, he senses something is amiss. Lacking the character to confront this, he secures himself away in a safe space. That then leads to a neurotic need to always be right.

In that context of the Mormon analogy, what he's doing here is two things.

1) He wants to control the environment. He wants to debate things like Word Print Analysis and Hebraisms. Faith promoting pseudo intellectual rubbish that is daunting and seemingly advanced to the layperson, which they find persuasive and bias confirming, and is at the same time tedious and laborious for "deniers" to respond to. Because RI and the other apologists know I'm not an expert on Hebrew poetry. Who the “F” is? Even the "experts" aren't experts. That's not a rigorous, highly competitive field. And even if I am, it's such a mind numbing discussion, goes over most people's heads, and can be debated endlessly due to its subjective nature and my inability to prove a negative. By even engaging the discussion I actually legitimize this nonsense. It then becomes a contest of personalities. Hey look, a Yale PhD Egyptologist just went toe to toe with the denier. The whole thing is reduced to soundbites and the emotion accompanying rhetorical jabs.

2) Personal attacks. Ad hominem. Debate the person, not the subject. It's all bout me. He will do anything but discuss the subject. Whenever he can't debate the subject, he starts to debate me. Which also includes using epithets like "denier." Like the apologist's use of terms such as "critic" or "anti" or "doubter." These are subtle attempts to dehumanize or delegitimize his opposition. And which shows he is not taking the discussion seriously and never was.
_Chap
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Chap »

Water Dog wrote:henever he can't debate the subject, he starts to debate me. Which also includes using epithets like "denier." Like the apologist's use of terms such as "critic" or "anti" or "doubter." These are subtle attempts to dehumanize or delegitimize his opposition.


Actually, there are contexts when pointing to the fact that someone denies a well-established fact in the face of reality is a legitimate way of indicating the pointlessness of attending to them further. Thus, for instance, calling someone a flat-earther - someone who denies the sphericity of the earth. Or a holocaust denier, despite all those lopped limbs of so many Jewish family trees. Or a denier of the simple fact that evolution has taken place since the beginnings of life on earth.

It is now becoming clear that denying the fact of climate change is on its way to becoming the a sign of the same kind of of perverse eccentricity as the well-known examples just cited. It has little to do with arguments or evidence, but seems to be expressive of a certain kind of personal choice, made for motives that I cannot fathom, and of which the person in question may or may not be fully aware.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Gunnar
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Gunnar »

Chap wrote:It is now becoming clear that denying the fact of climate change is on its way to becoming the a sign of the same kind of of perverse eccentricity as the well-known examples just cited. It has little to do with arguments or evidence, but seems to be expressive of a certain kind of personal choice, made for motives that I cannot fathom, and of which the person in question may or may not be fully aware.


Well said. This is steadily becoming more and more obvious.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

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― Harlan Ellison
_Morley
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Morley »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I know, right? It's like he dropped an equation into the conversation that no one questioned, the OP couldn't explain, and no one cared if the equation could be used, at all, to further the point being made on the thread.


You were doing pretty good job of questioning DT on that. I wasn't aware you needed help.
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