At Least 3 Killed, 40 Wounded In Weekend Shootings Across Chicago
How are we ok with this as a body politic? FORTY wounded over the weekend in just one city. Everyone who shoots at a bunch of people, whether it's white supremacism, black gangsterism, or some for of terrorism has their motivation, but I can't see how we're not actively outlawing the one intentional thing in common, which are firearms. It's nuts. This is not ok, and not something our founding fathers would have foreseen.
- Doc
Is this new to you?
Chicago is not even the worse city, try a search on St, Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore, or K.C.
The common factor is not firearms when weighed with reality, these cities have tuff gun laws...so what. It is about responsibility...but you will only see what you need or want to to see.
People in the late 18th century all had weapons, they didn’t go around shooting each other at these rates...what the founding fathers did not see were drugs and other reasons that send folks off the deep end to use firearms per this discussion.
Incredible in that this is somehow new to you Doc.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
This isn't fear, because I don't fear getting shot. I have empathy for my fellow Americans, and I'm pragmatic about the billions we're blowing through triaging their death and injuries which is, I believe, around another 42k (12.2 per 100,000).
I dunno. Maybe having spent x-amount of years 'defending' the idea of this country, the citizens from bogeymen, from whatever I tend to actually feel some sort of heartfelt desire to protect them, or at the very least I have empathy for all of us. As much as I dislike some Americans, I still feel a kinship with them because this is where we are and our lives are enmeshed to one degree or another. Sometimes protecting one another just means we take common sense precautions. In this case, I don't see why our affinity for firearms helps protect us from us. I think, based off the data, and from witnessing the victims' trauma, that keeping firearms around is doing more harm than good.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Markk wrote:People in the late 18th century all had weapons, they didn’t go around shooting each other at these rates...what the founding fathers did not see were drugs and other reasons that send folks off the deep end to use firearms per this discussion.
Incredible in that this is somehow new to you Doc.
Homicide rates in 18th century America were ~15/100,000. How do you know what was used to kill people? My suspicion is guns were probably pretty prevalent.
Regardless, guns are now used in 75% of all homicides in the US. Are you ok with that?
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
I’m not okay with any homicide or accidental death. With any weapon.
I think the difference in our views are that I believe violence is a behavioral issue, where as you believe it is a weapon issue. Is that a fair statement?
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
Markk wrote:People in the late 18th century all had weapons, they didn’t go around shooting each other at these rates...what the founding fathers did not see were drugs and other reasons that send folks off the deep end to use firearms per this discussion.
Incredible in that this is somehow new to you Doc.
Homicide rates in 18th century America were ~15/100,000. How do you know what was used to kill people? My suspicion is guns were probably pretty prevalent.
Regardless, guns are now used in 75% of all homicides in the US. Are you ok with that?
- Doc
Are you suggesting that the decision for weapon comes before the decision to kill?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Markk wrote:I’m not okay with any homicide or accidental death. With any weapon.
I think the difference in our views are that I believe violence is a behavioral issue, where as you believe it is a weapon issue. Is that a fair statement?
No. I think it's primarily a behavioral issue coupled with access to a device that can wreak havoc at fairly effective rates.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
subgenius wrote:Are you suggesting that the decision for weapon comes before the decision to kill?
If I'm following you correctly, I think the decision to kill typically is commensurate with access to the weapon and the ability to use it. Having standoff dehumanizes or depersonalizes the act and also reduces risk to the perp while simultaneously increasing their killing effectiveness.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Markk wrote:I’m not okay with any homicide or accidental death. With any weapon.
I think the difference in our views are that I believe violence is a behavioral issue, where as you believe it is a weapon issue. Is that a fair statement?
No. I think it's primarily a behavioral issue coupled with access to a device that can wreak havoc at fairly effective rates.
- Doc
Okay how do address the root problem?
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
subgenius wrote:Are you suggesting that the decision for weapon comes before the decision to kill?
If I'm following you correctly, I think the decision to kill typically is commensurate with access to the weapon and the ability to use it. Having standoff dehumanizes or depersonalizes the act and also reduces risk to the perp while simultaneously increasing their killing effectiveness.
- Doc
Were this not the case, we would see a similar number or frequency of mass knifing attacks in this country. As firearms are more effective at killing at a distance and with speed, a potential assailant will likely assume greater success with a firearm and may choose to act if s/he has access to one. Otherwise, given their kitchen drawers full of knives going unused, they’d more likely just stay home and pen manifestos on 8chan.
I’m sure that having said this, someone is going to point out the occasional mass knifing that occurs abroad. But those events don’t seem to happen with the same sort of startling frequency that mass shootings do in our exceptional USA.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Markk wrote: Okay how do address the root problem?
Well. It depends on what you define as the root problem? If you're talking about human nature, the root problem will never be solved unless we start, I dunno, designing people at a genetic level to stop murdering one another. If you want to define the root problem as the one thing this one nation deviates from the other Anglosphere countries, then it's pretty apparent.
Are you suggesting we'd be killing ourselves at the same rates, either by suicide or homicide, along with the rates of injurious behavior, if guns were removed from the equation?
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.