MDB Bible Study

[_Jersey Girl]

Hey Ceebs,

I have a suggestion for you if you're of a mind to do it. Invite Ms. Jack and Philo Sofee to look in on this thread. Jack's a serious Bible scholar and Sofee has the study Bible I was thinking of. The more I think about it, it's not online. There is one online, but that's not the most useful reference. The one Sofee has comes in volumes and he owns it.

I think your intent and purpose will get more traction if you invite them to the thread. Between the two of them they have more knowledge and resources than anyone else here with the possible exception of Kishkumen or Aristotle who are excellent at this. I'd invite them as well and see how it goes.

I'm really interested in a thread like this however, I lack the expertise to do justice to it. All you're going to get from me is mostly typical Sunday School understanding. Unless you touch on a specific topic I've investigated, I'm not of much use.

:-)

[_Some Schmo]

I may be getting my stories mixed up here, now that I think about it.

It means you've been blessed with the gift of eclecticism, much like Jonah had been anointed with fish guts.

Yeah, in that one case, I could only find a partial quote and was trying to write the other verses from memory.

[Guest]

Circa 1440 BC

Abraham Tested
1 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!” “Here I am,” he replied. 2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.” 3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and loaded his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, “Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.” 6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, “Father?” “Yes, my son?” Abraham replied. “The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” 8 Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together. 9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, “Abraham! Abraham!” “Here I am,” he replied. 12 “Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.” 13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, “On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided.” 15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, “I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.” 19 Then Abraham returned to his servants, and they set off together for Beersheba. And Abraham stayed in Beersheba.

What can we make of this bizarre story?
Could this story in the Old Testament be a for-shadowing of Jesus?
Is the New Testament the Old Testament revealed?
Is the Bible 66 books, written by 40 authors, over 2,000 years - Or is it possible that the Bible comes from One Author and that everything in the Old Testament points to Jesus and everything the New Testament points back to Jesus?

Verse 2 - Interesting
Verse 6 - The father (Abraham) placed the wood on his son (Issaac) for the sacrifice.
Verse 8 - God himself would provide the lamb for the sacrifice.
Verse13 - He saw a ram? Not a lamb? Hmmmmmmmm? Interesting
Verse 14 - He called that place "The Lord will provide?" -------- 1,500 hundred years later, Jesus (the son) was provided (the lamb of God) by the Father as the ultimate and final sacrifice - on the very same spot.

I'm going to plagiarize myself because time. But if I had a list of people who didn't deserve their reputation as a "hero" or role model I'd put the legendary Abraham pretty high on that list. His filicidal tendencies alone are troubling (counting casting Ishmael and Hagar out into the wild to fend for themselves he was two for two in trying to kill his sons.) Not to mention he let TWO kings/pharoahs take his wife away as consorts. In the case of Pharaoh, he took payment for Sarai after passing her off as his sister to avoid being killed. If you read the stories as they appear in Genesis, both Pharaoh and King Abimelech take Sarai into their "palace/household" because they believe she is beautiful...and unmarried. They keep her long enough in both cases to be afflicted - by sores in the case of Pharoah, by the women in the household becoming infertile in the case of Abimelech. They consummated their relationship with her as consort, clearly. And in both cases, Abraham doesn't do anything. Joseph Smith changes the story in the Book of Abraham to have God tell Abraham that he should say Sarah is his sister to protect them in Egypt to take the blame off of Abraham but the Bible is pretty clear. Abraham pimped his wife out twice to save his own life. That is, if one doesn't acknowledge that the stories about Abraham are a collection of various tales including duplicated ones where the compilers of the Tanakh weren't inclined to be the deciders on which was right and which got cut out so they just made them all part of the whole.

The story of Abraham is actually pretty good evidence that, "the Bible (is at least) 66 books, written by (numerous) authors, over (hundreds of) years".

[_Ceeboo]

Hey Jersey Girl (Hope all is well with the threatening weather in your world)

I'm really interested in a thread like this however, I lack the expertise to do justice to it. All you're going to get from me is mostly typical Sunday School understanding. Unless you touch on a specific topic I've investigated, I'm not of much use.

Don't be silly, your participation is just as valuable as anyones (This is Bible "study") and like you, I hope the thread goes somewhere. We shall see.

To the rest of my friends who have posted in the thread thus far: You all are also very welcome to participate - No matter what your perspective of the Bible is.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey honor

Thanks for contributing to the Bible study.

One of the hopes that I have in doing this is to be able to share back and forth (That in my opinion, is what a Bible study should be about - looking at the Bible, pondering the Bible, evaluating the Bible, testing the Bible, etc)

Having said that, I wanted to give you my personal perspective regarding one of the things that you brought to the study: That is, how high on your list of "heroes or role models" you would place Abraham (I won't reply to the "legendary Abraham" at this point as it would open up several more discussions that would prevent me from sharing my main thoughts that I want to share here)

First, it is clear that the Bible is really grimy, filled with human despair, death, littered with human pain, extreme judgement, etc, etc) Having said that, here is what I wanted to share (obviously from my perspective - one that believes the Bible to be the Word of God - it is Truth - Capital T - Not only with all the places, people and events, but the Truth of God)

Basically, what I am trying to say is that the Bible isn't about you - or me - or Abraham - or Moses - or David - or Luke - or Peter. It's not about the creature or human heroes or human role models. Rather, the Bible is about The Creator - God - It's all about God. Jesus in the New Testament (God in the flesh who entered his very own creation) in addition the very same God in the Tenakh (Old Testament), provides one way that the Bible allows us to get a glimpse of God's attributes (Love, compassion, grace, holy, authority, sovereign, righteous, Jealous, patient, intolerant). Another way we can get a glimpse into the attributes of God is by the Holy Spirit (Also God) The Holy Spirit provides divine wisdom and knowledge from God, promptings from God and peace and comfort in God. The Holy Spirit, being God, is fantastically powerful - It has completely changed hearts and minds of human beings - This isn't a restoration, rather, it is a total transformation of a human being. (Born again). This awesome gift of grace and indescribable power/authority of the Holy Spirit has literally nothing to do with the human that was transformed - that is to say that there is no effort or work or contribution made by the human being that is being transformed - it is 100% by the Power of Almighty God. It is God that has the power to change minds and hearts.

Anyway, just wanted to add my thoughts/beliefs/views to the table.

[_Some Schmo]

Man... it becomes more and more clear that religion is just a role-playing game for people who don't realize they're playing a game. The whole thing takes place in their imagination.

Remarkable.

[_Maksutov]

DCFS should have been notified and Abe thrown in jail for child abuse. That would be some moral teaching right there.

[_Maksutov]

Man... it becomes more and more clear that religion is just a role-playing game for people who don't realize they're playing a game. The whole thing takes place in their imagination.

Remarkable.

It was the first video game. More of a D & D, but you get the idea.

[_Some Schmo]

It was the first video game. More of a D & D, but you get the idea.

D&D was exactly what was on my mind.

"'I pray to Pelor, God of Light, to bring judgment down upon you!' As I feel his energy flow through me, I raise my mace and cast Guiding Bolt."

It's like an entertaining version of F&T meeting.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey POMM

Man... it becomes more and more clear that religion is just a role-playing game for people who don't realize they're playing a game. The whole thing takes place in their imagination.

Remarkable.

As a Christian, I am commanded to speak Truth with enormous love and graciousness (If you don't want to consider any of this, I understand)

God's mercy, grace, love and patience is abounding - God's wick is long but it is not infinitely long. Throughout the Bible (God revealing things he wants us to understand/know) he clearly desires that all return to him - even those who are far off. He has provided the way for all of us to do this. He has delivered the mechanism to which we can return to a place of peace and right standing with him again (This is not by our righteousness)

I understand that the concept of repenting of sin and turning toward God can, and often is, offensive to humans (It certainly was to me) but that is what the Bible clearly teaches

So, if Jesus was not who he claimed he was (God) and he did not die and resurrect - then the Bible and His message is completely meaningless.

If Jesus is who he claimed he was (God) and he did die and resurrected - then I can't imagine anything being more important.