WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

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Morley
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Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Morley »

Markk wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:01 am
Gadianton wrote:
Sat Jun 21, 2025 11:25 pm
I watched part of the podcast when it first happened just for kicks.

It was nearly surprising to see Markk first declare himself as a WW2 history buff, but then, directly following that, he brings up a "great discussion" about WW2, which turns out to be "the discussion" between none other than Tucker Carlson, a know-nothing provocateur, and Daryll Cooper, a Nazi apologist. He's not a scholar with a fringe opinion or even a real journalist. Did he even go to college?

Why would anyone care what a couple of loud mouths think about WW2? It's a subject so extensively documented that there is no reason a person with a serious interest in history would have any reason whatsoever to watch the podcast. Tucker had Cooper on for the shock value; to get views.

It's just -- wow -- the lack of self-awareness is staggering. How is it that Markk doesn't think he's going to simply get made fun of for first, having the gall to announce himself as a history buff, and then directly following that up with the infamous Carlson/Cooper podcast, that, you know, a person with deep interest in WW2 could learn a whole gosh-darn lot from!?

How you can take a podcast the least bit seriously that crescendos with Tucker coming to realize as Cooper insists, that killing all those Jews was a humanitarian act! By golly, the Nazis hadn't thought about the logistics of the situation and simply did what was best for everybody, including the Jews!

The religious right is truly sick.
What was the context in which Cooper, as a historian, said "killing all those Jews was a humanitarian act?"
Seriously?

In his Tucker Carlson interview, Cooper describes the Nazis as having “…gone in with no plan for [handling prisoners]… millions ended up dead there… we don’t have the food to feed these people… one of them actually says ‘Rather than wait for them all to slowly starve this winter, wouldn’t it be more humane to just finish them off quickly now?’ “

He presents this as the motivation behind resorting to gas chambers. Gassing the Jews was more humane than letting them starve.

That you buy this stuff is incredible, Markk.
Morley
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Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Morley »

Markk wrote:
Sat Jun 21, 2025 6:31 pm
Keep it is context to my point. There is maybe no other subject written about, except for maybe religion that I know of besides WW2.
Okay.
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Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Morley »

Markk, since you’re going to CFR me, here’s the full quotation with a timestamp.

Timestamp is about 48:28 to 49:42.

Cooper:

“They launched a war where they were completely unprepared to deal with the millions and millions of prisoners of war, of local political prisoners and so forth that they were going to have to handle. They went in with no plan for that, and they just threw these people into camps and millions of people ended up dead there. There you have letters as early as July, August, 1941, from commandants of these makeshift camps that they’re setting up for these millions of people who were surrendering or people they’re rounding up. … We don’t have the food to feed these people. And one of them actually says, ‘Rather than wait for them all to slowly starve this winter, wouldn’t it be more humane to just finish them off quickly now?’”
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Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Gadianton »

The context was included in my very description, and Morley fleshed it out further.

Markk, given you've declared yourself as a 50-year WW2 history buff and that there is no subject you know more about than WW2 history save religion, please name a single book you've ever read on the history of WW2.

Not counted are books by Christian pastors or Fox news hosts. Counted are general world history books that include WW2.
We can't take farmers and take all their people and send them back because they don't have maybe what they're supposed to have. They get rid of some of the people who have been there for 25 years and they work great and then you throw them out and they're replaced by criminals.
Markk
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Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Markk »

Morley wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:57 am
Markk wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:01 am
What was the context in which Cooper, as a historian, said "killing all those Jews was a humanitarian act?"
Seriously?

In his Tucker Carlson interview, Cooper describes the Nazis as having “…gone in with no plan for [handling prisoners]… millions ended up dead there… we don’t have the food to feed these people… one of them actually says ‘Rather than wait for them all to slowly starve this winter, wouldn’t it be more humane to just finish them off quickly now?’ “

He presents this as the motivation behind resorting to gas chambers. Gassing the Jews was more humane than letting them starve.

That you buy this stuff is incredible, Markk.
Exactly Morley. I don't think you have been following. Now go look at what Gad wrote what he said, which I asked him for the context, which you supplied. You can see he short changed the context.

He said..." How you can take a podcast the least bit seriously that crescendos with Tucker coming to realize as Cooper insists, that killing all those Jews was a humanitarian act!"

Gad was being totally dishonest....most likely ignorantly because he read some fake article some where, but he grossly twisted what was said.

When as you wrote....was closer to what Cooper said, and which I asked Gad for, knowing it.

“They launched a war where they were completely unprepared to deal with the millions and millions of prisoners of war, of local political prisoners and so forth that they were going to have to handle. They went in with no plan for that, and they just threw these people into camps and millions of people ended up dead there. There you have letters as early as July, August, 1941, from commandants of these makeshift camps that they’re setting up for these millions of people who were surrendering or people they’re rounding up. … We don’t have the food to feed these people. And one of them actually says, ‘Rather than wait for them all to slowly starve this winter, wouldn’t it be more humane to just finish them off quickly now?’”

Here is exactly what he said.... https://youtu.be/vOTgPEGYS2o?t=2757

Copper puts his history, or as he says relating the story something like this, making it my own a bit...."that if an alien came here and knew nothing about, say, Trump. And they asked our own Some Schmo who he was, and the he went back and reported to their world about who the president was, that is the opinion they would have."

Cooper's approach is to ask everyone their approach, and then tell the story. He wasn't agreeing with what happened, he was telling the history of what happened, and how humans can justify their, in this case, mass murder.

Do you think that commandant saying what he did, should not be part of the history? I don't think you would.
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Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Markk »

Gadianton wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 1:38 am
The context was included in my very description, and Morley fleshed it out further.

Markk, given you've declared yourself as a 50-year WW2 history buff and that there is no subject you know more about than WW2 history save religion, please name a single book you've ever read on the history of WW2.

Not counted are books by Christian pastors or Fox news hosts. Counted are general world history books that include WW2.
Gad, you pasted a flat out lie, Morley put some context to it, I pasted what was actually said in full context.

I have read more books than I could ever remember, and it really doesn't matter if you believe me or not, again join in and let's talk about the war and we you test my general knowledge. I will say a few books that come to mind that made a huge impact was the Rape of Nanjing, Iwo Assault on Hell, and A Tomb Called Iwo Jima. Technical Histories like the Rise and Fall of the Third Rich I read early on, but these days I prefer Bios like I mentioned. We are losing these heroes everyday, my father was one, and I appreciate what they did for us.

But like I wrote, I am not a expert or remotely close, I only know what I know. Let's pick a topic and let's discuss it, if I don't know about it then I will admit it, but I will be open to learn about it. As I write this I just thought of another book that I would recommend, it is called the 900 days, it is about the Siege of Leningrad, and how people with fat checks were cannibals. As I think about some of these books I have read, many about Holocaust survivors, The cigarette sellers, orphaned Jewish kids living on the street in the Warsaw Ghetto. Or POWs, the Wooden Horse was a good one, or one I remember I read maybe 40 years ago was called Free as a Running Fox. Again
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Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Morley »

Markk wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 2:44 am
Coopers approach is to ask everyone their approach, and then tell the story.
Cooper’s approach is to try to revise history. He has no credibility as a historian. He has no degree, no publications, and no academic affiliations. He’s an apologist who’s whitewashing the Third Reich.
Markk wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 2:44 am
He wasn't agreeing with what happened, he was telling the history of what happened, and how humans can justify their, in this case, mass murder.
He was absolutely suggesting that what the German officer said had merit.

If he were a historian, the way you are, he’d know, as you do, that the final solution was well planned before its implementation. It wasn't some mistake. He wouldn’t have presented the words of someone who was complicit, without offering some kind of pushback. Copper offered no pushback. He presented it as an alternate history--the real history.
Markk wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 2:44 am
Do you think that commandant saying what he did, should not be part of the history? I don't think you would.
If you'll forgive me, Markk, but that's a stupid question. What the commandant said is already part of history, otherwise Cooper wouldn't have had access to it. I don't think that what the commandant said should be taken as a credible explanation for the Holocaust--which is what Cooper was doing.

To Gadianton's question: Where besides Carlson and Cooper are you getting your information about World War II? And knowing what you know, how can you possibly give any credence to Cooper?
Morley
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Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Morley »

Markk wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 3:20 am
Gad, you pasted a flat out lie, Morley put some context to it, I pasted what was actually said in full context.
Gad's interpretation was not just his own. Dozens of experts and organizations had the same take on what Cooper said, and Carlson nodded along to--from Yad Vashem to Hillsdale College, and from the ADL to members of the US Congress.
Markk wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 3:20 am
I have read more books than I could ever remember, and it really doesn't matter if you believe me or not, again join in and let's talk about the war and we you test my general knowledge. I will say a few books that come to mind that made a huge impact was the Rape of Nanjing, Iwo Assault on Hell, and A Tomb Called Iwo Jima. Technical Histories like the Rise and Fall of the Third Rich I read early on, but these days I prefer Bios like I mentioned. We are losing these heroes everyday, my father was one, and I appreciate what they did for us.

But like I wrote, I am not a expert or remotely close, I only know what I know. Let's pick a topic and let's discuss it, if I don't know about it then I will admit it, but I will be open to learn about it. As I write this I just thought of another book that I would recommend, it is called the 900 days, it is about the Siege of Leningrad, and how people with fat checks were cannibals. As I think about some of these books I have read, many about Holocaust survivors, The cigarette sellers, orphaned Jewish kids living on the street in the Warsaw Ghetto. Or POWs, the Wooden Horse was a good one, or one I remember I read maybe 40 years ago was called Free as a Running Fox. Again
Good. Then you know that what Cooper was suggesting was BS.

Even your reading of Shirer’s The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich would have made it pretty clear that the Holocaust was rooted in Nazi ideology from the very beginning. (And Shirer wrote before they found the troves of damning Nazi documents.) Heh, the plan for the final solution even has its roots in Mein Kampf.
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Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Markk »

Morley wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 3:23 am
Markk wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 2:44 am
Cooper's approach is to ask everyone their approach, and then tell the story.
Cooper’s approach is to try to revise history. He has no credibility as a historian. He has no degree, no publications, and no academic affiliations. He’s an apologist who’s whitewashing the Third Reich.
Markk wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 2:44 am
He wasn't agreeing with what happened, he was telling the history of what happened, and how humans can justify their, in this case, mass murder.
He was absolutely suggesting that what the German officer said had merit.

If he were a historian, the way you are, he’d know, as you do, that the final solution was well planned before its implementation. It wasn't some mistake. He wouldn’t have presented the words of someone who was complicit, without offering some kind of pushback. Copper offered no pushback. He presented it as an alternate history--the real history.
Markk wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 2:44 am
Do you think that commandant saying what he did, should not be part of the history? I don't think you would.
If you'll forgive me, Markk, but that's a stupid question. What the commandant said is already part of history, otherwise Cooper wouldn't have had access to it. I don't think that what the commandant said should be taken as a credible explanation for the Holocaust--which is what Cooper was doing.

To Gadianton's question: Where besides Carlson and Cooper are you getting your information about World War II? And knowing what you know, how can you possibly give any credence to Cooper?
My point is and you actually proved my point to a large degree, that Cooper did not say what he was accused of saying in the context that the article that cakes linked, and what Gad said. I gave you the link, he, right or wrong stated as you just conceded something that was "already part of history." It was not his opinion as the article said and as Gad said, he was repeating known history.

In order to move on Morley, you have to concede that, which in part you already did. It does not mean that Cooper's view of history is correct, it just means that the article and Gad are not being truthful with what he said.

Again Gad wrote...
"How you can take a podcast the least bit seriously that crescendos with Tucker coming to realize as Cooper insists, that killing all those Jews was a humanitarian act! "
That is simply a flat out lie.
Markk
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Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Markk »

Morley: Gad's interpretation was not just his own. Dozens of experts and organizations had the same take on what Cooper said, and Carlson nodded along to--from Yad Vashem to Hillsdale College, and from the ADL to members of the US Congress.
Come on you saw the video (I assume)....he did not say it in that context at all.

Here it is again....https://youtu.be/vOTgPEGYS2o?t=2757
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