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[huckelberry]

Marķk,

I checked Google due to a bit of curiosity. We pretty much had open borders in the first perhaps two thirds of 19th century. Increasing concern produced legislation, starting Page act 1875 limiting Asian immigration. A variety of legislation has continued.

I think work permits without the benefits and help for citizens or permanent residents should continue to have a sizable role.

Perhaps to give you something not to like, when I was younger I had occasion to do the sort of ag work done often by folks with work permits. Some were open enough to speak of the poverty which caused them to come and work without the legal steps. I can see that such folks should be sent back and given opportunity to get proper permission. I do not wish them much harm or punishment.

[Markk]

When I say open borders, it means anyone from any country can come here and expect any and all rights and benefits we afford. It would mean to eliminate all immigration laws and no need to enforce them.

We either have border laws and enforce them, or we don't, is the context.

Do you believe we should have border laws, and if so, should the be enforced?

We have not had open borders like that in over a hundred years. Why would you imagine I want such a thing? I do not.

I'm sorry, I mixed you up with Kish. My apologies.

[Some Schmo]

It's funny to me that when I hear someone whine about "open boarders" I think of a four year old whining about their open closet door in the middle of the night (obviously, because of the scary boogieman that we should all irrationally fear).

[Gunnar]

It's funny to me that when I hear someone whine about "open boarders" I think of a four year old whining about their open closet door in the middle of the night (obviously, because of the scary boogieman that we should all irrationally fear).

I think the following is relevant to this discussion and why Trump and his administration's policies on immigration and deportation are so inherently irrational, xenophobic, unjust, racist and cruel:

Trump Administration Deports 82-Year-Old Pennsylvania Grandfather to Guatemala

On June 20, 82-year-old Luis Leon, of Allentown, Pennsylvania, went to a Philadelphia immigration office with his wife to replace his lost green card. Instead, Leon, who immigrated to the U.S. from Chile in 1987, was handcuffed by two officers and hauled away with no explanation, according to a report in Friday’s The Morning Call, a local Allentown newspaper.

Leon’s wife, who was not named in the report, was detained at the immigration center for 10 hours before being released. His family made repeated calls to immigration officials, who were of no help in tracking down Leon’s whereabouts. Then on July 9, Leon’s wife received a call from an unknown person who said Luis had died while in the custody of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

That turned out to be untrue. Instead, Leon is at a hospital in Guatemala. His condition is unclear.

“Finally, on Friday, a relative from Leon’s native Chile was told he had been taken first to a detention center in Minnesota and then to Guatemala,” The Morning Call reported. It is not known if Leon was sent to Guatemala by mistake.

Since taking office for the second time, President Donald Trump has pursued a hyper-aggressive deportation scheme that has sent immigrants to countries they are not from.

The Morning Call reported:

In Allentown, he lived a quiet life, raising four children and enjoying retirement after years working at a leather manufacturing plant.

It all fell apart, Nataly said, when he lost the wallet holding his green card and made the fateful appointment to replace it at the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services office on 41st Street in Philadelphia.

Frustration at not knowing Leon’s whereabouts turned to grief July 9, when a caller informed Leon’s wife that he had died, Nataly said.

Leon’s granddaughter said Luis was granted political asylum in the U.S. after he fled the notorious Pinochet regime. She asked Morning Call not to use her surname for fear of government retaliation.

An official with ICE said it is investigating the case, but refused to offer any details.

“I can see all my family is in pain right now,” Nataly said.

The post Trump Administration Deports 82-Year-Old Pennsylvania Grandfather to Guatemala first appeared on Mediaite.

This beloved, harmless grandfather who was a legal, fully documented immigrant with a legitimate green card was guilty of nothing worse than having inadvertently lost his wallet containing his green card and trying to legitimately replace what he had lost!

Perhaps this wouldn't have happened if he had applied for and received full citizenship as soon as he was eligible, but I suspect that even this would not have saved him from deportation, given Trump's obvious vendetta and animus towards brown people in general.

[Jersey Girl]

It's funny to me that when I hear someone whine about "open boarders" I think of a four year old whining about their open closet door in the middle of the night (obviously, because of the scary boogieman that we should all irrationally fear).

I think the following is relevant to this discussion and why Trump and his administration's policies on immigration and deportation are so inherently irrational, xenophobic, unjust, racist and cruel:

Trump Administration Deports 82-Year-Old Pennsylvania Grandfather to Guatemala

On June 20, 82-year-old Luis Leon, of Allentown, Pennsylvania, went to a Philadelphia immigration office with his wife to replace his lost green card. Instead, Leon, who immigrated to the U.S. from Chile in 1987, was handcuffed by two officers and hauled away with no explanation, according to a report in Friday’s The Morning Call, a local Allentown newspaper.

Leon’s wife, who was not named in the report, was detained at the immigration center for 10 hours before being released. His family made repeated calls to immigration officials, who were of no help in tracking down Leon’s whereabouts. Then on July 9, Leon’s wife received a call from an unknown person who said Luis had died while in the custody of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

That turned out to be untrue. Instead, Leon is at a hospital in Guatemala. His condition is unclear.

“Finally, on Friday, a relative from Leon’s native Chile was told he had been taken first to a detention center in Minnesota and then to Guatemala,” The Morning Call reported. It is not known if Leon was sent to Guatemala by mistake.

Since taking office for the second time, President Donald Trump has pursued a hyper-aggressive deportation scheme that has sent immigrants to countries they are not from.

The Morning Call reported:

In Allentown, he lived a quiet life, raising four children and enjoying retirement after years working at a leather manufacturing plant.

It all fell apart, Nataly said, when he lost the wallet holding his green card and made the fateful appointment to replace it at the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services office on 41st Street in Philadelphia.

Frustration at not knowing Leon’s whereabouts turned to grief July 9, when a caller informed Leon’s wife that he had died, Nataly said.

Leon’s granddaughter said Luis was granted political asylum in the U.S. after he fled the notorious Pinochet regime. She asked Morning Call not to use her surname for fear of government retaliation.

An official with ICE said it is investigating the case, but refused to offer any details.

“I can see all my family is in pain right now,” Nataly said.

The post Trump Administration Deports 82-Year-Old Pennsylvania Grandfather to Guatemala first appeared on Mediaite.

This beloved, harmless grandfather who was a legal, fully documented immigrant with a legitimate green card was guilty of nothing worse than having inadvertently lost his wallet containing his green card and trying to legitimately replace what he had lost!

Perhaps this wouldn't have happened if he had applied for and received full citizenship as soon as he was eligible, but I suspect that even this would not have saved him from deportation, given Trump's obvious vendetta and animus towards brown people in general.

Absolutely despicable!

First of all, they're doing the exact OPPOSITE of what Trump claims they are doing. They aren't targetting illegal or undocumented immigrants. They're targetting immigrants at the immigration offices who are doing exactly what Trump (and others) claim they SHOULD do.

And why is that? Because Trump is playing a numbers game. He didn't initiate an investigative process to root out illegal or undocumented immigrants. He set QUOTAS. He doesn't care how where they round up the bodies so long as they round up bodies so of course ICE agents go where the gettin' is good...immigration offices. The only problem is that they are yanking people out of there to fill quotas and to hell with the process Trump claims he's trying to protect.

What a warped thing this Trump is! He's trying to out do Obama and Biden's rate of deportations. How sick is that? The man is obsessed with revenge and right there, you have an 82 year old grandpa doing who is here legally, lost his documentation, goes to the immigration office to get it replaced and they off he goes! No one can find him, the already frantic family gets notice that he's DEAD then THAT trauma, which is already underway, comes to a screeching halt because he's NOT dead.

Can Trump do anything right? Ever?

[Gunnar]

Absolutely despicable!

First of all, they're doing the exact OPPOSITE of what Trump claims they are doing. They aren't targetting illegal or undocumented immigrants. They're targetting immigrants at the immigration offices who are doing exactly what Trump (and others) claim they SHOULD do.

And why is that? Because Trump is playing a numbers game. He didn't initiate an investigative process to root out illegal or undocumented immigrants. He set QUOTAS. He doesn't care how where they round up the bodies so long as they round up bodies so of course ICE agents go where the gettin' is good...immigration offices. The only problem is that they are yanking people out of there to fill quotas and to hell with the process Trump claims he's trying to protect.

What a warped thing this Trump is! He's trying to out do Obama and Biden's rate of deportations. How sick is that? The man is obsessed with revenge and right there, you have an 82 year old grandpa doing who is here legally, lost his documentation, goes to the immigration office to get it replaced and they off he goes! No one can find him, the already frantic family gets notice that he's DEAD then THAT trauma, which is already underway, comes to a screeching halt because he's NOT dead.

Can Trump do anything right? Ever?

Obviously, Trump is far less concerned about doing or getting anything right than about making himself look good by meeting his set quota of deporting "undocumented" immigrants, whether they are actually undocumented or not, in order to placate the most blatantly bigoted and xenophobic of his loyal sycophants.

[Chap]

[DELETED - on same issue as a previous post]

[Chap]

This beloved, harmless grandfather who was a legal, fully documented immigrant with a legitimate green card was guilty of nothing worse than having inadvertently lost his wallet containing his green card and trying to legitimately replace what he had lost!

Perhaps this wouldn't have happened if he had applied for and received full citizenship as soon as he was eligible, but I suspect that even this would not have saved him from deportation, given Trump's obvious vendetta and animus towards brown people in general.

I begin to wonder whether ICE is not deliberately choosing to seize and deport people that it knows perfectly well have legal residence in the US, and have committed no crime, just to show how scary they are, and how free they are of all restraints, legal and moral.

There are people in the MAGA base who love this kind of thing. In Milton's great poem Paradise Lost, the rebel angel Satan, cast out of heaven, exclaims in defiance “Farewell remorse: all good to me is lost; Evil, be thou my good.” Something like that seems to have happened here.

MG, do you approve of the actions of ICE in this particular case? It is pretty clear what they did, so that seems a reasonable question to ask you.

[Gunnar]

I begin to wonder whether ICE is not deliberately choosing to seize and deport people that it knows perfectly well have legal residence in the US, and have committed no crime, just to show how scary they are, and how free they are of all restraints, legal and moral.

It is becoming increasingly apparent that that is precisely what Trump is aiming for. He has already, in effect, declared that he will ignore and violate any Supreme Court decision or constitutional mandate he doesn't like. He already seems to regard himself as an absolute king or tyrant entitled to do anything he wants to do without restrictions and probably use the U.S. military to force compliance by any and all who dare to oppose him, probably including even the Supreme Court itself. He has removed or is systematically trying to remove any military leaders who refuse to declare unequivocal loyalty to him alone.

[Chap]

I begin to wonder whether ICE is not deliberately choosing to seize and deport people that it knows perfectly well have legal residence in the US, and have committed no crime, just to show how scary they are, and how free they are of all restraints, legal and moral.

It is becoming increasingly apparent that that is precisely what Trump is aiming for. He has already, in effect, declared that he will ignore and violate any Supreme Court decision or constitutional mandate he doesn't like. He already seems to regard himself as an absolute king or tyrant entitled to do anything he wants to do without restrictions and probably use the U.S. military to force compliance by any and all who dare to oppose him, probably including even the Supreme Court itself. He has removed or is systematically trying to remove any military leaders who refuse to declare unequivocal loyalty to him alone.

For the sake of the rest of the world, I hope that some of you Americans have a plan for dealing with this appallingly dangerous situation. Your democracy seems to be crumbling away, and being replaced by the vengeful dictatorship of an amoral narcissist as a significant section of your population applauds.