Honest question for the left

[honorentheos]

Ajax,

First, Gad has given you the answers multiple times over. The free rider problem and the economics of scales answer your questions.

You have made this another binary issue that is impossible to take seriously. Like with almost everything you argue here, you complain broadly against taxes rather than specific instances of where you think those funds are being misspent, making your argument a cartoon that has no place in reality.

Second, the Trump tax cuts put the nation in debt. Trump knew he'd be gone before the bill came due. If you took out massive loans and new credit cards and then used that to fund your lifestyle, the first little while would seem like you were suddenly living your dream life. It ignored the inevitable future where you are subjected to bankruptcy and end up worse off since you couldn't actually pay for that surge in borrowed wealth.

Trump did to the nation what he's done to countless businesses. We are all worse off in the long run for what you think were a few golden years.

Taxes accomplish big things no single payer into the system could influence by increasing their own contribution.

Remember how you joined the crowd funding of Trump's wall? Didn't matter. He had to take from other federal programs to make the program viable.

Were I to voluntarily increase my own donation by $100,000 that's only 0.00000285714285714 of the amount collected while it would be a significant percentage of my income.

But even if I felt it was worth it, the free rider problem means we're I to do this at great sacrifice to myself the fact almost no one else does the same would mean having done accomplished practically no good for society, either.

Tax laws force people to participate rather than just take the benefits without contributing.

That brings up the issue of what a fair share even is, and I argue this issue is largely driven by the income gap in our country.

[canpakes]

do you believe that Robert DeNiro, ‘Hollywood’ (hint: is not a person), Obama, George Soros, Hillary Clinton, Warren Buffett, Bernie Sanders, and LeBron James have paid less tax than you did last year?

No.

OK.

1. These folks have paid more in taxes than you.
2. They’re subject to a higher tax rate than you.
3. You’ve offered no proof that they desire to be taxed at a rate higher than present anyway.

But, let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that they supposedly are just fine with an increased tax rate that they’ll willingly pay, to support some purpose or shared expense. Doing so means that you want them to pony up even more money over and above that rate to the US Treasury because of their willingness to support those things, right?

Have you written checks to the government to support the higher taxes required to build Trump’s wall, or increase defense spending?

[canpakes]

ajax, serious question. Do you invest in a 401k, with some portion of either pre- or post-tax pay?

[Brack]

Ajax,

The unemployment rate was already down to 4.1% when Trump signed the Republican Congress's tax cuts into law.

[ajax18]

Have you written checks to the government to support the higher taxes required to build Trump’s wall, or increase defense spending?

We tried to pay for the wall by private donation but we weren't even allowed to do that.

It still doesn't answer the question. Why wait for a law to be passed to pay more taxes? Because you're that upset someone used the road for free? The same people fighting so hard to keep the borders unenforced, to keep uninsured illegal immigrants behind the wheel, in the emergency rooms, clogging up the courtrooms so that people like Kevin Graham can employ them and save on employee healthcare or a minimum wage he might have to pay a legal worker?

[ajax18]

ajax, serious question. Do you invest in a 401k, with some portion of either pre- or post-tax pay?

Yeah

[honorentheos]

It still doesn't answer the question. Why wait for a law to be passed to pay more taxes? Because you're that upset someone used the road for free? The same people fighting so hard to keep the borders unenforced, to keep uninsured illegal immigrants behind the wheel, in the emergency rooms, clogging up the courtrooms so that people like Kevin Graham can employ them and save on employee healthcare or a minimum wage he might have to pay a legal worker?

Taxes accomplish big things no single payer into the system could influence by increasing their own contribution.

Remember how you joined the crowd funding of Trump's wall? Didn't matter. He had to take from other federal programs to make the program viable.

Were I to voluntarily increase my own donation by $100,000 that's only 0.00000285714285714 of the amount collected while it would be a significant percentage of my income.

But even if I felt it was worth it, the free rider problem means were I to do this at great sacrifice to myself the fact almost no one else does the same would mean that sacrifice accomplished practically no good for society, either.

Tax laws force people to participate rather than just take the benefits without contributing.

That brings up the issue of what a fair share even is, and I argue this issue is largely driven by the income gap in our country.

You've been told it's due to the free rider problem. You can read up on it.

[ajax18]

Were I to voluntarily increase my own donation by $100,000 that's only 0.00000285714285714 of the amount collected while it would be a significant percentage of my income.

Why wouldn't all the other Democrat voters agree and join in the contribution? I was trying to focus on the 1%. As much as the left demonizes the 1% it seems like a lot of the 1% are leftists. At least 60% of the population seems to vote Democrat. If Democrats really are the wealthier, more productive, morally superior, better educated people that Icarus says why is the chance that the other 40% might not pay as much sufficient reason to slow the progress?

But even if I felt it was worth it, the free rider problem means were I to do this at great sacrifice to myself the fact almost no one else does the same would mean that sacrifice accomplished practically no good for society, either.

Kind of sounds like the Paris climate accord to me. But hey, whether it's fair or not, we have to do something right now. We can't wait for a fair global agreement.

[honorentheos]

Were I to voluntarily increase my own donation by $100,000 that's only 0.00000285714285714 of the amount collected while it would be a significant percentage of my income.

Why wouldn't all the other Democrat voters agree and join in the contribution? I was trying to focus on the 1%. As much as the left demonizes the 1% it seems like a lot of the 1% are leftists. At least 60% of the population seems to vote Democrat. If Democrats really are the wealthier, more productive, morally superior, better educated people that Icarus says why is the chance that the other 40% might not pay as much sufficient reason to slow the progress?

But even if I felt it was worth it, the free rider problem means were I to do this at great sacrifice to myself the fact almost no one else does the same would mean that sacrifice accomplished practically no good for society, either.

Kind of sounds like the Paris climate accord to me. But hey, whether it's fair or not, we have to do something right now. We can't wait for a fair global agreement.

Ajax, what is an example of a tax funded program you want to see dropped and why?

[honorentheos]

Is Xanax actually suggesting that we get to pick and choose what and how much we pay into a tax-funded program? Like. We could just click and unclick boxes next to each program?

I can understand how an optometrist could get an education that avoided considering the free rider problem, easily. What gets me is how he can be so wrapped up in outrage over taxes in particular, have this presented to him as a critical concept countless times over years just on this (including the parent) board, and still not have engaged it.

The ignorance this presents is numbing. But it's also this behavior that makes me wonder if he actually has a complaint that is informed enough to have specific complaints regarding tax spending? Or is it all Reagan's welfare moms and the tropes of right wing media? He can't detail the complaint beyond he doesn't like paying taxes? Well, that's pretty impenetrable.