Charlie Kirk shot at UVU in Orem

[Gunnar]

Analysis Solves Kirk Case—Evidence Points Away From Robinson’s Position
This was a very interesting analysis by a firearms and forensic specialist. According to him, the bullet that killed Charlie Kirk wound near the chest cavity of his body. According to hit the high velocity bullet could not possibly have been deflected to that position after entering the entry wound in the left side of his lower neck if it had been fired from the position and angle that Tyler Robinson supposedly fired the shot. It would have to have been fired from a location at a higher and very different angle from the line of sight from where Robinson supposedly was. If it had been fired from where originally opposed, there is no way it could have failed to pass clear through Kirk's neck, or could have been deflected sharply enough to wind up where it was found. Also, the huge pressure wave created by the bullet at that location so close to the carotid artery would have instantly stopped and destroyed the heart, explaining why there was so little blood coming out of the entry wound. This makes it seem physically impossible for any shot made by Robinson to have killed Kirk.

So, it is entirely likely that the real shooter has not yet been found. One thing I am sure of, though, that Kash Patel cannot be trusted to claim any conclusion about the shooting that conflicts with Trump wants him to conclude about the shooting and culpability of extreme leftists.

Gunnar, the last video you posted was from another 'expert' who was sure it was a palmed gun used by a security person in the front row that killed kirk. This conspiracy theory video disagrees with that, apparently, and also with many other previous conspiracy theory videos, particularly with regard to forensic and autopsy data. Your link didn't work, but I found the video elsewhere, and in the description it was noted that this 'expert' is making assumptions about data, indicating to me he doesn't have the actual forensic notes from the case. Why do you put such weight on such an analysis? Also, why do you consider this person an expert? What do you intend for people to take away from your presenting of such wildly opposing theories, especially since each time you present them as a better source of 'truth' than anything else?

Thanks, Marcus. Please see my reply to canpakes above and see if any of that makes sense, after seeing the whole video again. I acknowledge the possibility that you may be right about me being a bit too gullible.

[Gunnar]

Analysis Solves Kirk Case—Evidence Points Away From Robinson’s Position
This was a very interesting analysis by a firearms and forensic specialist. According to him, the bullet that killed Charlie Kirk wound near the chest cavity of his body. According to hit the high velocity bullet could not possibly have been deflected to that position after entering the entry wound in the left side of his lower neck if it had been fired from the position and angle that Tyler Robinson supposedly fired the shot. It would have to have been fired from a location at a higher and very different angle from the line of sight from where Robinson supposedly was. If it had been fired from where originally opposed, there is no way it could have failed to pass clear through Kirk's neck, or could have been deflected sharply enough to wind up where it was found. Also, the huge pressure wave created by the bullet at that location so close to the carotid artery would have instantly stopped and destroyed the heart, explaining why there was so little blood coming out of the entry wound. This makes it seem physically impossible for any shot made by Robinson to have killed Kirk.

So, it is entirely likely that the real shooter has not yet been found. One thing I am sure of, though, that Kash Patel cannot be trusted to claim any conclusion about the shooting that conflicts with Trump wants him to conclude about the shooting and culpability of extreme leftists.

The link is broken.

I have read dozens of these analyses by self-styled experts, mostly contradictory, but all breathlessly announcing that Robinson could not possibly have been the shooter. What none of those folks have is the best evidence of how Robinson was killed — the body. These guys can mouth off all they want, but if the ME found the bullet or bullet fragments inside Kirk’s body, then it was possible. Not only possible, but it happened.

The world is filled with proclamations by self-proclaimed experts that “X is impossible,” when the actual truth is that their understanding of the physical world is incomplete.

We have an entire field of science called “ballistics” that includes what happens to bullets inside bodies. It’s people who shoot real bullets from real guns into animal carcasses. The very little I read from someone who does this for a living (I don’t recall who it was whether I found it), explained that, depending on the type of ammunition, it is completely plausible that the bullet or fragments thereof lodged in or near Kirk’s spine.

My understanding is that what the autopsy showed. But it’s second hand and is muddled because the source tried to turn it into some kind of miracle story. And the story is absurd. Kirk didn’t need to have a super spine. What happened was a whole bunch of contingent factors that combined to produce a low frequency, but entirely plausible outcome.

Many years ago, my family was eating dinner in an Italian restaurant. I was reading her about something, and she picked up her plate of spaghetti and acted as if she was going to hit me in the face with it. Being the smart ass kid that I was, I looked her straight in the eye and said “You. Wouldn’t. Dare.”

The next thing I knew, I had an incoming plate of spaghetti aimed squarely at my face. Out of sheer reflex, I threw my hands up in front of my face and turned my head to the side.

And, when there was no explosion of red sauce, I turned my head back to see the upright plate balanced between the tips of our fingers without a drop of spillage. If you had asked me before, I would have told you it never could have happened. But it did — a combination of contingent events that resulted in an unlikely result.

If you look around, you can find examples everywhere. But we tend to forget them when the event is traumatic, like the Kirk shooting or the collapse of the Twin Towers. How many people, including BYU professor, proclaiming that that was impossible for the planes to have caused the towers to collapse. I highly recommend reminding yourself of that whenever you hear claims made by people that such and such is impossible.

We live in scary times, and more than ever we need each other to keep ourselves sane.

And,

Thanks, Res. I fixed the broken URL for you, and I still found Dr. Martensen's presentation interesting. Please see my last reply to canpakes, and view the video if you want to. Dr. Martensen himself acknowledged that he would gladly modify his opinion if warranted by getting a chance to read the actual autopsy report.

[Whiskey]

Gunnar, the last video you posted was from another 'expert' who was sure it was a palmed gun used by a security person in the front row that killed kirk. This conspiracy theory video disagrees with that, apparently, and also with many other previous conspiracy theory videos, particularly with regard to forensic and autopsy data. Your link didn't work, but I found the video elsewhere, and in the description it was noted that this 'expert' is making assumptions about data, indicating to me he doesn't have the actual forensic notes from the case. Why do you put such weight on such an analysis? Also, why do you consider this person an expert? What do you intend for people to take away from your presenting of such wildly opposing theories, especially since each time you present them as a better source of 'truth' than anything else?

Thanks, Marcus. Please see my reply to canpakes above and see if any of that makes sense, after seeing the whole video again. I acknowledge the possibility that you may be right about me being a bit too gullible.

Y'all and Alex Jones are on the same page.

[Gunnar]

What is true for sure about the assassination is that the MAGA Right, including Kash Patel, were awfully quick and even delighted to blame it on extreme leftists, in order to use that against their political opponents. It couldn't have helped them more even if that were the actual purpose behind the assassination. It may still actually prove to be the case that that the assassin was an extreme, irrational leftist, whether it really was Tyler Robinson or not (which I don't claim can be definitely ruled out). But I still have some reservations about whether it was actually him, and I don't Trust that Patel would honestly admit to any conclusion that deviated from what Trump wanted him to conclude, regardless of the evidence, just as his other appointees obviously don't dare to contradict or correct him on anything he insists is true. He still can't let go of the thoroughly debunked claim that the 2020 election was unlawfully stolen from him, though even judges that he himself nominated ruled that it wasn't.

[Bret Ripley]

I just realized there's a chance that Seattle's first opponent in the playoffs will be the Tigers, in which case Ceeboo and I will temporarily be mortal enemies. We'll try to keep the collateral damage to a minimum.

I don't know, Cleveland beat Detroit 9 out of 13 games this year. The Mariners might be safe from the Tigers!

Well, would you look at that: Tigers take 2 from Cleveland!

[Bret Ripley]

I just realized there's a chance that Seattle's first opponent in the playoffs will be the Tigers, in which case Ceeboo and I will temporarily be mortal enemies. We'll try to keep the collateral damage to a minimum.

I think we are going to have our hands full with Cleveland - If we should make it past the Guardians, dismantling Seattle will be a breeze.

To the last I grapple with thee. From hell's heart I stab at thee! For hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee! (I'm just practicing for when the Tigers are poised to eliminate Seattle in game 4.)

[Marcus]

I don't know, Cleveland beat Detroit 9 out of 13 games this year. The Mariners might be safe from the Tigers!

Well, would you look at that: Tigers take 2 from Cleveland!

I just saw the end of that!! Another friend of mine just last night politely inquired why i'm not a bigger fan of Detroit. Politely.

[ceeboo]

I think we are going to have our hands full with Cleveland - If we should make it past the Guardians, dismantling Seattle will be a breeze.

To the last I grapple with thee. From hell's heart I stab at thee! For hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee!

(I'm just practicing for when the Tigers are poised to eliminate Seattle in game 4.)

I think we have a decent chance in game 1 (Skubal on the bump) but I don't think we can beat Seattle in the series.

[Bret Ripley]

To the last I grapple with thee. From hell's heart I stab at thee! For hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee!

(I'm just practicing for when the Tigers are poised to eliminate Seattle in game 4.)

I think we have a decent chance in game 1 (Skubal on the bump) but I don't think we can beat Seattle in the series.

Yeah, but if Detroit wins game 1 and picks up another game along the way, we'll have to face Skubal twice.

[ceeboo]

Yeah, but if Detroit wins game 1 and picks up another game along the way, we'll have to face Skubal twice.