Trump's War on Children

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_Chap
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Chap »

aussieguy55 wrote:https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/immigrant-children-wwjd/


Nice:

Image

If I was still a Christian, there would be so many easy, easy slam dunks on this one. Pity.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Chap
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Chap »

Jersey Girl wrote:They don't know where they are. They literally do not know who they are. And the very thing that identified and defined them as belonging to someone (a parent) or something (a family), has been taken from them without notice or time to adjust.


The emotional impact on young children of separation and confinement in 'facilities' is certainly dreadful.

But in addition to that aspect, let's consider the fact that ICE has now taken on a terrible moral and legal responsibility: ultimately, these children will have to be restored to their parents - but who are their parents? No responsible government (yeah, I know, but let's pretend, OK?) can simply hand over a child to someone who presents themselves at the door and says 'That's my little Maria'. There has to be some proof of that.

What could that proof be? From what I have read, it does not seem that in every case of a separated child the information exists to link them reliably with the adult(s) from whom they were originally separated (I put the minimum case here: it may be a lot worse). But even if it did, how do we know that those adults were really the parents of the children involved, and not people traffickers or at best distant relations? Making reasonable efforts to verify relationships would be time consuming for one child, but there are warehouses full of children to process here. Who is going to deal with that work, and pay for it? There will inevitably be lawyers involved, and that is not cheap or quick.

What if two different lots of people turn up, both claiming to be Maria's parents? And, given that the adults in question had no right to enter the US anyhow, how are they supposed to present themselves at the 'facilities' to claim the children in question? In that situation, by what means can the US government make contact with parents who may be homeless Honduran would-be asylum seekers, who are just 'south of the border' somewhere?

The point is not resolvable by saying 'It's the parents' fault for bringing them'. By seizing these children, the US government - an organisation in the last analysis subject to law - has taken on huge responsibilities for their care, certainly in the short term, probably in the long term, and possibly in some cases for ever. Yeah, I know: there is a wonderful private-enterprise custodial industry itching to welcome these kids once they are old enough, all at the public expense and all for the shareholders' benefit.

Somehow I have the feeling that somebody has not thought this through very well.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Chap
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Chap »

And it looks like it will be down to NGOs, not the US government, to try to find ways to reunite children with their parents:

Fate of 2,300 separated children still unclear despite Trump's executive order. NGOs say bringing parents and children back together is an enormous puzzle with no clear system from the administration.

Check the bolded part ...

The lack of action has created an additional burden for groups that provide legal and social services to immigrants, flooding non-governmental organisations (NGOs) with cases.

“We would prefer the government to not separate families,” said Megan McKenna, from Kids in Need of Defense (Kind) which offers legal services to unaccompanied children. “But if that has to be the policy then they need to ensure there is a clear protocol that ensures the constant communication between the child and the parent. It’s the only humane thing to do. It’s incredible it’s not happening already.”

Connecting families presents an enormous challenge because once they are detained at the border, children and parents enter two separate systems: for parents, the US Department of Homeland Security and criminal prosecution; meanwhile, children are classified as an “unaccompanied alien child” and transferred to the US Department of Health and Human Services.

“We are dealing with several agencies all trying to coordinate in a disastrous way,” said Zenén Jaimes Pérez from the Texas Civil Rights Project, which provides legal counsel to immigrant families.

Some parents have struggled to find their children, some of whom are being flown to shelters around the country. With no clear process in place, it’s possible some families will never be reunited.

“Permanent separation. It happens,” John Sandweg, who ran the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) agency under Obama between 2013 and 2014, told NBC News.

Although both parents and children are allocated A-numbers – “alien” identifiers – and case files, no government body aggregates and tracks them as a family unit. A separated child is treated by the system in exactly the same way as a child who had crossed the border without their parents.

It’s left to the NGOs to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

With each new child Kind deals with, it has to try and figure out their parents’ A-number and search for them on Ice’s online detainee locator system. Some of the organisation’s attorneys have tried to guess alien numbers as they can be sequential if family members were processed at the same time.


Without these numbers – and the children rarely have them – they can also search by someone’s name, age and country of origin, but this relies on the details being entered by border patrol accurately.

“We can also check where the child was apprehended and try to guess where the parent might be detained,” said McKenna.

For parents, there is a hotline for information, but there are long wait times and it can be expensive for family members trying to call from abroad.

The Texas Civil Rights Project is taking a different approach. Every day, attorneys go to the courthouse in McAllen, Texas, to speak with adults waiting to be prosecuted for illegal entry.

They have up to 10 minutes to take down their personal information, including the names and ages of the children they were travelling with and their country of origin.

“A lot of people have fled enormous violence,” said Jaimes Pérez. “We had a mother and an 11-year-old son who fled Guatemala after her husband was brutally murdered. They were then separated by CBP [US Customs and Border Protection].”

The group sees between 30 and 40 people each day. “We don’t expect that to abate any time soon given the administration is hellbent on pursuing the zero tolerance policy,” he said.

The executive order that purports to end family separation has not been warmly received by NGOs, particularly the part that seeks to modify a settlement agreement that ensured that children could only be detained for 20 days. The order seeks to be able to detain alien families together indefinitely.

“It’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing,” said McKenna. “It would potentially end separation by allowing the government to keep children in jail-like conditions for even longer. This will continue to ensure suffering of kids and their families in a different way.”

Without an end to the zero tolerance policy of criminal prosecution for every immigrant who crosses the border illegally, parents and children will continue to be separated.

“If parents are still being prosecuted as criminals and put in prisons, they will be separated from their children,” said Jaimes Perèz. Family detention centres are already over capacity, despite plans to build more. “What happens in the meantime?”

A bittersweet side effect to the widespread outrage has been a surge in donations and volunteers, particularly to one organisation, the Refugee and Immigrant Center for Education and Legal Services (Raices), which has raised nearly $15m in just a few days through a Facebook fundraising campaign.

The not-for-profit will use these funds to expand its legal and social services for immigrants. Part of this is the launch of the “Families Together” project that aims, through a coalition of like-minded groups, to centralise data management and help organisations locate and reunite family members.

Raices will also use some of the money for its bond fund to get family members released from detention.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Hawkeye
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Hawkeye »

Trump Executive Order Makes Border Crisis Worse

Jailing families is not a solution
WASHINGTON — President Trump has signed an executive order mandating that families be jailed by the U.S. Departments of Homeland Security or Defense. This order will likely have the effect of jailing, for months or even years, immigrant families seeking safety in the U.S. The National Immigration Law Center has long decried the practice of jailing immigrant families, filing lawsuits when necessary to defend their rights. Below is a statement from Marielena Hincapié, executive director of the National Immigration Law Center, who visited family detention facilities in 2014:

“The Trump administration has created a crisis and committed horrific human rights abuses by separating children from their parents at the border. Clearly on the defense, today it used a political sleight of hand to try to placate Americans who have been rightly outraged by their government’s repugnant policies, including separating children and babies from their parents and housing them in cages.

“Jailing families is not an acceptable solution to putting children in cages. The best — and safest — place for these children is with their families and in their communities. The Trump administration pretends that alternatives to detention don’t exist. This is false. There are numerous alternatives that are both more humane and less costly, but this president refuses to use them. Our country has a system in place to process asylum claims, and these families should be allowed to go through this legal process.

“The Trump administration may not care much for the basic constitutional rights of people seeking safety. We do, and we’ll work with communities and in courtrooms to protect them. Not a single one of us should be standing on the sidelines as this administration inflicts lifelong trauma on these children. It is up to all of us to hold this administration accountable and stop this nightmare.”
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Jersey Girl »

The only adult member of the Trump family who I have any respect for, our FLOTUS, has put herself on a plane and gone down there to Texas to see things first hand for herself. Some media outlets are describing this as "damage control". I don't believe that for a single second of my life. I believe this is consistent with her position on the well being of children, the statement she made via her spokeswoman that conflicted with how President and Sessions were handling the plight of immigrant refugee children, and essentially, this is a Mom going to check on the welfare of other mother's children. Only this Mom has the high visibility of a public platform and resources to make the trip happen.

The hand that rocks the cradle...I would have liked to be a fly on the wall in the White House family quarters the past week or so. ;-)

I just did want to comment on the facility that is her first stop. At least, I hope it is only her first stop. It's called Upbring New Hope Children's Center owned and operated by Lutheran Social Services of the South. My comment has to do with Lutheran children's services in general. The Lutheran's, more than any other denomination I have seen in practice and also evaluated, are keenly adept at meeting the needs of children. I have visited their children's programs in my area, examined their curriculum, and observed their practices in real life. In short, the Lutheran's "get it". So, I have no doubt that FLOTUS will be pleased by what she sees in this program that is accommodating older minor children who crossed independent of adults.

What I would like to see (and hope that this happens today) is for her to visit the "tender age" care centers where the youngest and therefore, most vulnerable children are being cared for. Those children who did not cross the border under their own power and who were separated from their parents.

Meanwhile, it is being reported that President has ordered that the already separated children be reunited with their families. My understanding is that some of the separated children are in other states (why United and American put a halt to transporting immigrant children) so good luck rounding them all up and matching them to the adults that brought them here.

Earlier, I mentioned the hospital style bracelets. Had this administration and the demon AG Jeff Sessions had brain enough to preparation the system appropriately, they would have provided matching bracelets with bar codes on them to children and adults. For all I know, this is exactly what was done but I have seen little to no evidence that the gov't is prepared to smoothly transition children back to their adult parents or relatives.

If the press can be trusted, which at this point, I really don't.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Hawkeye
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Hawkeye »

Jersey Girl wrote:The only adult member of the Trump family who I have any respect for, our FLOTUS, has put herself on a plane and gone down there to Texas to see things first hand for herself. Some media outlets are describing this as "damage control". I don't believe that for a single second of my life.


I think that's exactly what it is. Why did it take her this long to suddenly give a crap? She could have put her foot down and said something weeks ago. Legislators from both sides of the aisle had been trying to gain access to observe how these kids were being treated at these centers only to be turned away at the door because her hubby decided they needed more time to stage things. She could have gained access easily at the time if she wanted to but decided to come out after all the dust had settled and the policy was rescinded.

And why the effin hell is she going down there wearing a huge green jacket that says in huge letters “I REALLY DON’T CARE, DO U?”

This is the most feckless, tone-deaf family to ever enter politics.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Jersey Girl, do you have a link to reports that the President has ordered reunification for currently separated families?
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Res Ipsa wrote:Jersey Girl, do you have a link to reports that the President has ordered reunification for currently separated families?


Yep, I'll go dig it up.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Trump on reuniting already separated families. Read through the whole thing.

“I’m directing HHS, DHS, DOJ to work together to keep illegal immigrant families together during the immigration process and reunite these previously separated groups,”’ Trump said.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... t-families
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Hawkeye wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:The only adult member of the Trump family who I have any respect for, our FLOTUS, has put herself on a plane and gone down there to Texas to see things first hand for herself. Some media outlets are describing this as "damage control". I don't believe that for a single second of my life.


I think that's exactly what it is.


That's predictable.

Why did it take her this long to suddenly give a crap? She could have put her foot down and said something weeks ago.


How do you know that she didn't?

Legislators from both sides of the aisle had been trying to gain access to observe how these kids were being treated at these centers only to be turned away at the door because her hubby decided they needed more time to stage things


Stage things? Do you read any of the posts that I make? Do you follow any of the links I provide?

My guess is no.

She could have gained access easily at the time if she wanted to but decided to come out after all the dust had settled and the policy was rescinded.


The executive order doesn't remotely settle the dust. Maybe she sought access when she felt she'd had and handle on the mechanics of the now rescinded policy and had a belly full of the misleading often incomplete BS reports coming out of both the gov't and media, or felt fully recovered from surgery to venture out on her own.

And why the effin hell is she going down there wearing a huge green jacket that says in huge letters “I REALLY DON’T CARE, DO U?”

This is the most feckless, tone-deaf family to ever enter politics.


Oh shut up. Maybe she wore the jacket because it was comfortable. Or...get this...think like a woman...tap into your inner female...it's not that hard...maybe she is using it to make a statement about independently breaking from the political games that are afoot (having already publicly condemned them) and doing her own thing.

In other words, I really don't care about effing politics...I'm going to do as I damn well please and check on the children.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
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