Russia Likely Did Swing Votes For Donald Trump

[_ajax18]

Cinepro has provided multiple links on how much illegal immigrant anchor babies cost the taxpayer in welfare. You ignore this because it doesn't fit with your agenda of open borders and your hope that the old white people die off without reproducing sooner rather than later.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Another reason to visit the real world would be so you can see that it is not real difficult to spot a immigrant here...especially when you grew up here and have friends that are illegal, wok with them , played sports with them, coached them , etc... I feel like I am Oliver Wendel Douglas, are you really that out of touch with what is happening in our country.

It's patently absurd that you can draw an accurate picture for yourself if you don't observe the the situation in person. You can choose to believe what others say, but the idea that people who don't live and work among the very people you're talking about pontificating to you that you're wrong is elitist and dumb beyond all reason.

For example, I watched this prison reform expose by 60 Minutes that was recently aired (it's absolutely worth your 13 minutes to watch this segment):

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/crime-and-punishment/

Politicians and prison wardens literally travelled to Germany to observe first-hand how they manage their system in order to re-think how we jail people here in the states. They could've just read a few studies, but they actually conducted on-site visits to prisons in Germany to ascertain an accurate picture for prison reform.

One warden was so affected by it, and he was very skeptical of their system prior to his visit, that he completely did a 180 on the matter. That was accomplished because he went there and ascertained the ground truth.

Markk, on this topic you're just not going to get our "economic Conservative" to change his mind. He's all about social Marxism, 3rd Wave feminism, and economic, uh, equanimity, despite his words to the contrary (you'll note virtually every fix of his involves more government intervention, more government spending, and more regulation). That's his choice, but to say that you don't know what your reality is, that you're a bigot, and that he knows better because he reads a few googled articles is the pinnacle of elitist hubris. It is what it is.

- Doc

[_Res Ipsa]

Another reason to visit the real world would be so you can see that it is not real difficult to spot a immigrant here...especially when you grew up here and have friends that are illegal, wok with them , played sports with them, coached them , etc... I feel like I am Oliver Wendel Douglas, are you really that out of touch with what is happening in our country.

It's patently absurd that you can draw an accurate picture for yourself if you don't observe the the situation in person. You can choose to believe what others say, but the idea that people who don't live and work among the very people you're talking about pontificating to you that you're wrong is elitist and dumb beyond all reason.

For example, I watched this prison reform expose by 60 Minutes that was recently aired (it's absolutely worth your 13 minutes to watch this segment):

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/crime-and-punishment/

Politicians and prison wardens literally travelled to Germany to observe first-hand how they manage their system in order to re-think how we jail people here in the states. They could've just read a few studies, but they actually conducted on-site visits to prisons in Germany to ascertain an accurate picture for prison reform.

One warden was so affected by it, and he was very skeptical of their system prior to his visit, that he completely did a 180 on the matter. That was accomplished because he went there and ascertained the ground truth.

Markk, on this topic you're just not going to get our "economic Conservative" to change his mind. He's all about social Marxism, 3rd Wave feminism, and economic, uh, equanimity, despite his words to the contrary (you'll note virtually every fix of his involves more government intervention, more government spending, and more regulation). That's his choice, but to say that you don't know what your reality is, that you're a bigot, and that he knows better because he reads a few googled articles is the pinnacle of elitist hubris. It is what it is.

- Doc

Doc, open borders is a bread and butter libertarian position. The more we restrict the border, the bigger government we need and the greater the reduction of individual freedom. No Marxism of any flavor required.

The distinctions between visiting the prison in Germany and riding around in a car with Markk should be obvious. I’m all for site visits when there is good reason to expect that the visit will provide useful information. But unless there were bona fire studies that concluded the German system had better outcomes than the US system, then the visit would be nothing more than a fun trip to Europe. The visit could show in a concrete way how they do things. But it can’t tell us whether the program improves outcomes.

Markk’s unwillingness to take data seriously (he claims two studies are contradictory when they clearly aren’t) tells me that all I should expect from riding around in a car with him is anecdotes heavily shaped by cognitive bias.

Put aside your “disgust” for EA and think for a minute, man. It’s like you’re arguing that we should disregard the scientific literature on global warming in favor of listening to a denier rant about how cold it is in his hometown today.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

The distinctions between visiting the prison in Germany and riding around in a car with Markk should be obvious. I’m all for site visits when there is good reason to expect that the visit will provide useful information. But unless there were bona fire studies that concluded the German system had better outcomes than the US system, then the visit would be nothing more than a fun trip to Europe. The visit could show in a concrete way how they do things. But it can’t tell us whether the program improves outcomes.

Markk’s unwillingness to take data seriously (he claims two studies are contradictory when they clearly aren’t) tells me that all I should expect from riding around in a car with him is anecdotes heavily shaped by cognitive bias.

Look. I understand what people are saying about immigration and wages. When you introduce competition the market will respond by increasing wages. It's the philosophy behind 'right to work' states.

What's not being acknowledged, is that rather than introducing controlled immigration you open the flood gates and let millions of impoverished, desperate to work immigrants into the system you're going to decrease wage competition because the demand to work outweighs the demand for higher pay, and eventually your wages are going to stagnate which then can't keep up with rent, real estate, consumables, etc...

The result is what you're seeing in SoCal. The biggest affected bloc of people, ironically for this board, is that of the African-American sector. They're suffering the most, but I guess if you can keep blaming White people and racism then, you know, nothing really gets done.

Regardless, and again, I don't really give two craps because I like cheap produce. Thank god there are people willing to break their backs for our produce otherwise it'd be too expensive to consume. I'm simply willing to acknowledge the ground reality is that when you have millions of immigrants, in a short'ish period of time, willing to work for wage-slave rates, the homeless situation we have right now in SoCal and other areas in the country is exasperated. I'm interested in the solution to homelessness more than I'm interested in the cause because I don't think the cause, whatever you think it is, won't be solved either due to social justice retards or ruthless businessmen who don't care about anything other than what lines their pockets.

On a side note, rather than importing people to do good paying jobs I really wish our education, government, and business systems would align to train our own so we can shift our own workforce toward careers that need people. I don't think it'll happen because I don't believe our political and economic cooperation exists to any intelligible degree.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

LOL...Your so full of crap we have two different studies presented here...one stating that that immigrants make wages go up, and others that show wages are decreasing.

If global warming is real, how come it is cold outside today?! Riddle me that poindexter.

Again, I explained to you, in simple terms, the answer to your conundrum. There are variant pressures on wages. It is possible for median wage, when adjusted for inflation, to be stagnant in absolute terms while immigration causing increases in wages among most earners. What that would tell you is that wages would be even worse than they are if not for immigration inflating growth.

Your link is nothing more than a theory...which the author admits to, and is impossible to apply to real life...he or she even implies that when a immigrant replaces a native the wage goes down...theoretically of course, and it only goes up when native and immigrants work together.

You asked for an underlying theoretical explanation, so I gave you an underlying theoretical explanation. That chapter is in a 620 page book that also looks at real-world effects. It has as a key finding that immigration causes lower wages among prior immigrants and those without a high-school degree, but increases wages for everyone else and in aggregate. This is because that labor supply is in direct competition with that cohort, but improves overall economic growth, leading to improvements in wages. It estimates the impact is in total very small. You know, like I have been saying.

So you complain that what I am claiming makes no sense and ask me to demonstrate how it is the empirical results I referred to are possible. I link an academic piece going into detail about the underlying theory. Then you complain that I'm just linking theory.

Again, this is the standard position. I'm just referring to it. I think you should contemplate the fact that you are asserting that labor economists, as a group, aren't bright enough to realize that immigrants willing to take less in pay are in competition for labor, because they lack your street smarts. Those pointy-headed intellectuals don't know nothin'.

Do you have a government job?

No.

Another reason to visit the real world would be so you can see that it is not real difficult to spot a immigrant here...especially when you grew up here and have friends that are illegal, wok with them , played sports with them, coached them , etc... I feel like I am Oliver Wendel Douglas, are you really that out of touch with what is happening in our country.

I feel bad for the people who are here legally that you've assumed, based on stereotype, are not. I feel less bad for those you've made the error for in reverse.

[_subgenius]

...(snip)...competing for these low skill jobs. And none of them are jobs with benefits.

Should a person who joined that job market illegally be allowed to compete with, or even be preferred over, a person that is legally in that same market?

[_EAllusion]

Look. I understand what people are saying about immigration and wages. When you introduce competition the market will respond by increasing wages. It's the philosophy behind 'right to work' states.

The philosophy behind right to work is that people shouldn't be required to participate in a union against their will to maintain employment. It's a moral argument. (I'd contend that workers should have a right to tell an employer they won't work unless that employer only hires people from their union. That's free choice too, but that's neither here nor there.) It's generally recognized that this puts downward pressure on wages because this undercuts monopolizing the labor supply through collective bargaining, which is why employers push heavily for it. Powerful unions are a hassle for employers. They generally have to compensate more either in wages, benefits, or favorable working conditions. Right to work weakens unions.

[_EAllusion]

Markk, on this topic you're just not going to get our "economic Conservative" to change his mind. He's all about social Marxism, 3rd Wave feminism, and economic, uh, equanimity, despite his words to the contrary (you'll note virtually every fix of his involves more government intervention, more government spending, and more regulation). That's his choice, but to say that you don't know what your reality is, that you're a bigot, and that he knows better because he reads a few googled articles is the pinnacle of elitist hubris. It is what it is.

- Doc

Setting aside the fact that understanding what's correct to say about impact of immigration on wages has nothing to do with your preferred government interventions, please help me out here.

Which requires more intrusive government intervention?

1) Strict limitations on and regulation of the flow of immigrant labor.

2) Loose limitations on and regulation of the flow of immigrant labor.

Thanks.

[_ajax18]

Markk, on this topic you're just not going to get our "economic Conservative" to change his mind. He's all about social Marxism, 3rd Wave feminism, and economic, uh, equanimity, despite his words to the contrary (you'll note virtually every fix of his involves more government intervention, more government spending, and more regulation). That's his choice, but to say that you don't know what your reality is, that you're a bigot, and that he knows better because he reads a few googled articles is the pinnacle of elitist hubris. It is what it is.

I need to save this. I've never seen EAllusion described more accuarately than this.

[_Some Schmo]

Markk, on this topic you're just not going to get our "economic Conservative" to change his mind. He's all about social Marxism, 3rd Wave feminism, and economic, uh, equanimity, despite his words to the contrary (you'll note virtually every fix of his involves more government intervention, more government spending, and more regulation). That's his choice, but to say that you don't know what your reality is, that you're a bigot, and that he knows better because he reads a few googled articles is the pinnacle of elitist hubris. It is what it is.

I need to save this. I've never seen EAllusion described more accuarately than this.

What an endorsement! Doc must be proud.