Doc, Homless in LA

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl...this is about gathering correct data for workable solutions...

It seems as though you think there's no way to gather correct data.

[_Markk]

Jersey Girl...this is about gathering correct data for workable solutions...

Jersey Girl wrote...It seems as though you think there's no way to gather correct data.

Yes and No, I am saying that minimally trained volunteers (30 minutes of training), asking a alcoholic or drug addict, who may possibly be mentally ill, if they have a "problematic" alcohol or drug usage problem, is not a accurate way to gather data.

The question is leading, many people with addictions feel their addictions are not Problematic. Plus, of the almost 60k estimated homeless, only 5k to 7k are actually interviewed.

From commonly asked question by volunteers...at the LASH website...

There are four components to the Homeless Count. The most publicized is the Street Count when thousands of volunteers conduct a visual tally. The second component is the Shelter and Institution Count where we ask service providers and institutions to report on how many homeless individuals occupied their facilities on the night of the Count. The third component is the Youth Count, which is survey-based. Youth experiencing homelessness are extremely difficult to identify by sight so we rely on a survey-based methodology. The fourth component is the demographic survey. This is where we survey a sample of 5,000 to 7,000 people experiencing homelessness. This large universe allows us to confidently estimate demographic characteristics such as veteran status, race, and gender for the entire homeless population in our Continuum of Care. This demographic information is also applied to the tally sheets collected during the Street Count.




https://economicrt.org/publication/who-counts/

What do you think about P-hacking

[_Markk]

for those left interacting, don't get sucked into thinking anything is being said of relevance to the actual lahsa data, which is probably the only real data available to discuss for LA -- if it's horribly flawed, then no worthwhile discussion can be had on this topic. here is their methodology:

https://www.lahsa.org/documents?id=1645 ... report.pdf

It would take me some time to work through that and give it a fair summary as this isn't my world. It is extraordinarily unlikely this material could be dumbed down to a level that certain individuals could even understand it, let alone discuss honestly. So happy reading to the real stalwarts.

I'll dumb it down for you.

The survey is conducted on three nights over LA county, which is over 4K square miles, with 10 million people... by volunteers with 30 minutes of training. Of the estimated 60k some homeless in the county...5k to 7k are actually surveyed, and then just simply asked by the volunteer if they have a "problematic" substance abuse problem. The rest of the count is just a visual count, at night or early morning, and assuming numbers in cars and tents and other makeshift shelters.

[_Themis]

Plus, of the almost 60k estimated homeless, only 5k to 7k are actually interviewed.

That's a lot. Compare polling data that only gets information from maybe a 1000 people to represent millions.

[_Jersey Girl]

I'll dumb it down for you.

The survey is conducted on three nights over LA county, which is over 4K square miles, with 10 million people... by volunteers with 30 minutes of training. Of the estimated 60k some homeless in the county...5k to 7k are actually surveyed, and then just simply asked by the volunteer if they have a "problematic" substance abuse problem. The rest of the count is just a visual count, at night or early morning, and assuming numbers in cars and tents and other makeshift shelters.

Do you think that's an unreasonable or faulty process? If so, why?

[_grindael]

Markk, did the people in the building (including Perry Mason) have anywhere else to go? Did you try to recruit them to help clean up the building and surrounding area? Perhaps giving them food or money to do so, or simply tell them that if they didn't police it, you would call the cops and have them forceably removed?

Have you ever been truly homeless for an extended period of time? Had any kind of serious addiction?

What makes you think that the majority of homeless people are totally irredeemable?

[_schreech]

for those left interacting, don't get sucked into thinking anything is being said of relevance to the actual lahsa data, which is probably the only real data available to discuss for LA -- if it's horribly flawed, then no worthwhile discussion can be had on this topic. here is their methodology:

https://www.lahsa.org/documents?id=1645 ... report.pdf

It would take me some time to work through that and give it a fair summary as this isn't my world. It is extraordinarily unlikely this material could be dumbed down to a level that certain individuals could even understand it, let alone discuss honestly. So happy reading to the real stalwarts.

I'll dumb it down for you.

The survey is conducted on three nights over LA county, which is over 4K square miles, with 10 million people... by volunteers with 30 minutes of training. Of the estimated 60k some homeless in the county...5k to 7k are actually surveyed, and then just simply asked by the volunteer if they have a "problematic" substance abuse problem. The rest of the count is just a visual count, at night or early morning, and assuming numbers in cars and tents and other makeshift shelters.

On top of all the other things you don’t understand. Statistical significance seems to be near the top of that list. You REALLY need to study some very remedial stats. Like desperately. You are looking sillier and sillier with every post.

[_Markk]

Markk, did the people in the building (including Perry Mason) have anywhere else to go? Did you try to recruit them to help clean up the building and surrounding area? Perhaps giving them food or money to do so, or simply tell them that if they didn't police it, you would call the cops and have them forceably removed?

Have you ever been truly homeless for an extended period of time? Had any kind of serious addiction?

What makes you think that the majority of homeless people are totally irredeemable?

I still see some of them walking around, or riding bikes...some stay at at Park down the road. I never saw Perry again.

I did give some money and food to a few. I gave all I had on me yesterday to a homeless man yesterday at OC county hall. I also had a homeless ministry for years, where I feed folks out of my own pocket. Yes I had addiction issues, and yes I was kinda homeless, but not chronically for a year and a half.

I could not recruit them for several reasons...one, it would take work away from a existing employee, two, they would not pass a drug test.

I am getting slammed here because I used my personal experience as opinion...Gad is hanging his hat on a survey and my experience mean nothing.

[_grindael]

Markk, did the people in the building (including Perry Mason) have anywhere else to go? Did you try to recruit them to help clean up the building and surrounding area? Perhaps giving them food or money to do so, or simply tell them that if they didn't police it, you would call the cops and have them forceably removed?

Have you ever been truly homeless for an extended period of time? Had any kind of serious addiction?

What makes you think that the majority of homeless people are totally irredeemable?

I still see some of them walking around, or riding bikes...some stay at at Park down the road. I never saw Perry again.

I did give some money and food to a few. I gave all I had on me yesterday to a homeless man yesterday at OC county hall. I also had a homeless ministry for years, where I feed folks out of my own pocket. Yes I had addiction issues, and yes I was kinda homeless, but not chronically for a year and a half.

I could not recruit them for several reasons...one, it would take work away from a existing employee, two, they would not pass a drug test.

I am getting slammed here because I used my personal experience as opinion...Gad is hanging his hat on a survey and my experience mean nothing.

I was homeless for half a year a decade or so ago. And yes it was because of alcohol addiction. I just thought that it is quite callous to claim that most homeless people are irredeemable. I certainly was not. So which is it, it would take money away from employees, or they were too far gone to even help? That's confusing.

The problem is that we live in a Capitalist Society and most people just don't want to be bothered with helping the homeless. There is no easy fix and that just adds to the problem. California is a bastion of Liberals, but they don't want to provide affordable housing for low income individuals/families. I live in NY and we are second behind California with 89k homeless, (compared to 134k for California). But we are really third, because Hawaii is second with more homeless per thousand than NY. And what do they have in common with California? Prime Real Estate. (Most of the homeless in NY are downstate, where real estate is sky high).

This isn't a social problem, it is all about greed and distaste for the homeless. And it lands squarely on the backs of the liberal elite in California, Hawaii and NY. This article was posted just yesterday,

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/livable- ... story.html

The Republican City Attorney for Huntington Beach's comments were just deplorable.

[_Markk]

Where did I say most Homeless people are irredeemable?

If we were to hire one of them, we would have to let someone go. Or they can go to the office and go through the hiring process like anyone else...which requires passing a drug test, having a vehicle ( or way to work), and having a way to check the schedule via a computer or cell phone every night. Not to mention passing a physical if required. These are what are required to work with our company. I am not sure what you expect.

Like I said I have worked with homeless, and many will never be functional in society simply becasue they are mentally ill and do not have the tools to be on their own or care for themselves...but that does not in anyway mean they are irredeemable. Those are the ones my wife and I have a heart for...the slow ones, those that have no family support, or the tools to be productive.

I agree with you to a degree, but there is also a place for personal responsibility of the individual...it is complex, it is full of grey areas, it is both subjective and objective.

Some people are just lazy, and want to live off of others, I find it harder to help these types.

Some are addicted, good people...but are too weak to beat their addiction...and no matter how much you help them, give them money, pay for rehab, they burn you over and over, and they always have a hustle going on, even when they don't need to.

Sometimes tough love is the only way they get over their demons. That does not mean they are irredeemable, but that they are just not ready to help themselves, or receive real help from loved ones. We have someone close to us that is doing this to her family...hooked on opioids...we assume homeless most the time, only comes around when she needs something or wants to clean up...yet every time it goes bad. We love her, she is awesome, kind, and beautiful...and yet a lying, thieving, hustling drug addict, who even stole pain medication from my father when he was dying of cancer. At times all we can do is cry.

Addiction sucks, I hate it,it not only effects the person, but all those that are around them. But in order to help those that can be helped, they need to really want it. Some are not strong enough, and that is the tragedy.