Trump's War on Children

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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Chap wrote:Maybe time for a thread split?


Might you consider doing the MDB world a favor and stop with the extraneous comments? If you think a thread should be split, report the darn thing and get it done. There's no reason for you to comment as such within the thread. It's ineffective and doesn't need to happen. I am addressing the poster who created the thread. If he doesn't want me to address the content of his post, I'm sure he can say so for himself.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Ajax,

A Mexican, Central American, or South American mother seeking refugee status can't do that at an embassy, in a neighboring country, or in Mexico. You see, dragging your kids thousands of miles through foreign territory isn't cruel or inhumane, but looking to circumvent immigration laws in the US and then being detained, with or without your kids (pick one Liberals) is 100% not her fault. It's our responsibility to pay for a home, food, and other entitlements in the US no questions asked until she's given full citizenship.

If you disagree with this course of action you're a racist.

Well.

I mean you're a racist, but so is everyone else who doesn't open up the American portocullis.

- Doc


Uh...I don't know if I fully understand your above comments but I will reply based on what I think you intended.

My focus changed somewhere mid-thread and as I continued to read and compare reports. I originally entered the thread with the intention of bringing forward information about the shelters, how they operate and the standards that govern their operation.

On one hand, given the fact that Sessions leveled made the May 7th threat announcement, I can say that adults knew that they were choosing separation when the continued to cross the border however, I can't say that I know for a fact that they got the message while they were on their journey to the U. S. border. So, I can't rightly claim that they knew it.

Then there was my confusion about whether or not Sessions meant (the very words that came out of his mouth in the interview I linked to) that they were only pulling aside and separating assumed families in between ports of entry, only to learn that some reports said the gov't was both pulling them out of ports of entry's and also shoving them back at ports of entry, thus blocking them from doing what they were told to do--which is cross at the POE's.

Between what Sessions and Trump have stated, conflicting and often incomplete reports, it's hard to locate truth and fact in the giant cf that this has become.

Hopefully the above relates to your post. I don't count on it, though!
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Jersey Girl,

Oh, don't get me wrong. This Sessions-Trump thing they and the GOP is doing is nothing more than terrorism, in my opinion. They're sending a message to would be illegal immigrants that they'll have their kids torn from them and interred in a camp somewhere while they languish in prison. They're also playing a very dangerous game with the Democrats trying to get The Wall funded.

That said, this is a result of a very cynical game both sides have been at for the last 30 years. The Democrats give less than two craps to fix the situation probably because the majority of illegals when finally getting citizenship vote Left. The Repubs give less than two craps because illegals fill terrible jobs and/or keep wages depressed, in my opinion. The last point is always up for debate, though (as we've seen here).

The thing that totally crushes me about this latest game the current admin is playing is just the sheer level of inhumanity involved. I don't have a good answer other than I'd mirror Canada's immigration policy, or maybe that of Mexico. It's an incredibly complicated issue that's been reduced to You're Racist and You're Socialist.

I think I asked earlier what people here would to fix it or solved this conundrum, but I must've missed their solution. I'm interested in seeing what a good fix is that balances our national sovereignty, our economic needs, and accommodating those who seek a fresh and secure start tk life.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_subgenius
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _subgenius »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I'm interested in seeing what a good fix is that balances our national sovereignty, our economic needs, and accommodating those who seek a fresh and secure start tk life.

- Doc

you mean your interested in people legally immigrating? What is so terrible about that method as a "good fix"?
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Jersey Girl,

Oh, don't get me wrong. This Sessions-Trump thing they and the GOP is doing is nothing more than terrorism, in my opinion. They're sending a message to would be illegal immigrants that they'll have their kids torn from them and interred in a camp somewhere while they languish in prison. They're also playing a very dangerous game with the Democrats trying to get The Wall funded.

That said, this is a result of a very cynical game both sides have been at for the last 30 years. The Democrats give less than two craps to fix the situation probably because the majority of illegals when finally getting citizenship vote Left. The Repubs give less than two craps because illegals fill terrible jobs and/or keep wages depressed, in my opinion. The last point is always up for debate, though (as we've seen here).

The thing that totally crushes me about this latest game the current admin is playing is just the sheer level of inhumanity involved. I don't have a good answer other than I'd mirror Canada's immigration policy, or maybe that of Mexico. It's an incredibly complicated issue that's been reduced to You're Racist and You're Socialist.

I think I asked earlier what people here would to fix it or solved this conundrum, but I must've missed their solution. I'm interested in seeing what a good fix is that balances our national sovereignty, our economic needs, and accommodating those who seek a fresh and secure start tk life.

- Doc


Okay, I understand now. I think what you're essentially saying is similar to what I've thought all along which is that both sides give zero "F"s about the damage they are doing to children and families.

As for solutions, you are right.

The Democrats don't have any.
The GOP hasn't got any.

And neither does anyone else here and I think that's because people are so immersed in their partisan BS (add to that pride, greed, status, self interest) they can't pull their own heads out and work together on behalf of the American public, much less can they work together on behalf of immigrant refugees because zero "F"s.

Right?

This country is crippled by it's own politics.

On a more positive note (if there is a positive note) one good thing that I think that has come out of this cf is the ability of civilians to rise up and use their power to bear pressure on the administration in ways we haven't seen for a very long time. I'm talking about doctors, psychologists, major university studies being quoted, 72 former US attorneys drafting a message to the White House, two major airlines refusing to transport, CO reducing funds that support the separations, MA refusing to deploy it's National Guard troops to the area. And even me in my own way at times knocking myself out on social media (here and on Facebook) to get my points across and give folks insight into the thinking and feeling of the children involved and how dangerous this game really is, because I know that is something I can do--same issues that I raise in my correspondence to my reps which is still sitting here pending daily developments--only I think it needs to go without revisions or updates, because these events are only going to get worse before they get better, so why not send it all off now?

We do have personal power to change what this administration is doing. Be it in our public and private positions or simply in our ability to contact reps and make our positions known, and with our vote.

DJT isn't America, WE are.
Last edited by Google Feedfetcher on Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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_Hawkeye
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Hawkeye »

I have a perfect solution, simply go back to the way it was and stop pretending illegal immigration is a national security issue. The people crossing the border are some of the most humble, god-fearing people on the planet. They have a wicked work ethic and virtually every academic study has shown they benefit our economy and there are some that say the cost/benefit breaks even. Moreover, more Mexicans traveled back to Mexico than crossed into the USA a few years ago indicating their trek is about the economy. Exceptions are with asylum seekers in times of travesty in countries to the south.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

subgenius wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I'm interested in seeing what a good fix is that balances our national sovereignty, our economic needs, and accommodating those who seek a fresh and secure start tk life.

- Doc

you mean your interested in people legally immigrating? What is so terrible about that method as a "good fix"?


How's that working out for you?

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_ajax18
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _ajax18 »

Hawkeye wrote:I have a perfect solution, simply go back to the way it was and stop pretending illegal immigration is a national security issue. The people crossing the border are some of the most humble, god-fearing people on the planet. They have a wicked work ethic and virtually every academic study has shown they benefit our economy and there are some that say the cost/benefit breaks even. Moreover, more Mexicans traveled back to Mexico than crossed into the USA a few years ago indicating their trek is about the economy. Exceptions are with asylum seekers in times of travesty in countries to the south.


I'm starting to think I have a better chance of pushing for income tax decreases than I have for enforcing the border. If we could ever get rid of social welfare, a porous border wouldn't be nearly as devastating.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_Gunnar
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Gunnar »

A tiny bit of good news about the family separation mess at the border: Immigrant Girl in Viral Photo Was Reunited With Her Mom

With the instantly iconic photo of a 2-year-old Honduran girl in a pink shirt crying as her mother was searched at the Mexican border came the question of what happened after the two were loaded into a van and driven off to a processing center.

“The mother and daughter were not separated,” a spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection told The Daily Beast.

The spokesman further reported that the child was expected to remain with the mother at a detention center and on through a final disposition in federal court. The spokesman added that same could generally be said of all youngsters “of a tender age,” meaning those “4 years and below.”

“I would tell you that being a child under the age of 5, children will not be separated unless…” the spokesman said, proceeding to list four reasons a tender-aged detainee might not be exempt.

However:
Youngsters under 5 can still be separated if the parent has a criminal record or history of illegal immigration. Or if there is some question as to whether the familial relationship is “questionable.” Or when there is “insufficient detention space to accommodate a family unit where both parents are present.” Or if there if there is “evidence of abuse that would indicate that the child’s safety is at risk.”

The last exception is not without irony, for a host of experts have charged that forcibly separating a kid from a parent after a harrowing journey is in itself child abuse.

And there are apparently enough exemptions to cause several facilities to be called “tender-age shelters.” The Trump folks decline to give exact numbers.

Related in U.S. News
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Trump's War on Children

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Gunnar,

That is good news. One thing that bothered me was there had been no mention whatsoever of where the young children were. And, even when we did start to hear a smattering of reports, we still have never seen a breakdown by age of the immigrant refugee children. We barely have a consensus on the total number.

Which leads me to believe that in this age of technology, they either haven't got the stats at their fingertips or they aren't willing to divulge them.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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