Trump's War on Children

[_honorentheos]

As for solutions, you are right.

The Democrats don't have any.
The GOP hasn't got any.

And neither does anyone else here

I think I asked earlier what people here would to fix it or solved this conundrum, but I must've missed their solution.

I gave my solution. It's based on seeing the problem going back to the late Bush Presidency as one of resource allocation not meeting the demand. Much of the flack Obama faced for his EOs' focus on who to deport was misapplied. Obama was deporting everyone that they could with the funding available. So he made an executive decision to focus on the ones who were the biggest risk to American society and not go after kids and people otherwise lower on the risk chart. Yes, there were people who committed violent crimes who were not deported but if perfection is one's goal, one is going to be disappointed no matter what. Obama was really unpopular with liberals who were paying attention to the immigration issue, actually, and had to really make changes in advance of the 2012 election to try win them back to beat Romney. Good thing Romney believed in self-deportation instead of a legitimate immigration policy...

So, we have this $25 billion over 5 year wall proposal. There are a lot of immigration judges that could be paid with $5 billion a year to expedite cases and get those complying with refugee and asylum seeking laws into the right place while deporting those who were trying to take advantage of the system. It could help fund legitimate immigration needs to staff low-wage jobs that rely on low skilled immigrant labor. It could go a long ways to helping the problem of illegal immigration by making legal immigration a viable option. It currently isn't, and the way we spend our money says exactly what is being said above. No one legitimately cares. It's just politics. But it's ignorant politics to say the solution is just legal immigration so immigrants get in line.

TL;DR - The problem is a resource one. The solution requires resources.

[Guest]

I have a perfect solution, simply go back to the way it was and stop pretending illegal immigration is a national security issue. The people crossing the border are some of the most humble, god-fearing people on the planet. They have a wicked work ethic and virtually every academic study has shown they benefit our economy and there are some that say the cost/benefit breaks even. Moreover, more Mexicans traveled back to Mexico than crossed into the USA a few years ago indicating their trek is about the economy. Exceptions are with asylum seekers in times of travesty in countries to the south.

Thanks! that nicely reinforces the points I previously made here.

I am certain that the real reason Republican politicians are so opposed to immigration (both legal and not) is that once immigrants qualify for citizenship and eligibility to vote by any legal means available to them, they are less likely to vote Republican than are native born citizens.

[Guest]

Hawkeye & Gunnar,

Why not open & unfettered immigration then?

Also, I want it noted the Interwebz is full of sources that demonstrate illegal immigration is a net negative, in the hundreds of billions of dollars to the federal and state budgets. These figures are, of course, racist and xenophobic and should be ignored without prejudice.

- Doc

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Honor,

Your solution is to throw more billions at the adjudicative process, no? What kind of internment do you propose for Japanese Americans illegal immigrants and their families while they are waiting for and during their, uh, adjudicative process?

- Doc

[_Gunnar]

Hawkeye & Gunnar,

Why not open & unfettered immigration then?

Also, I want it noted the Interwebz is full of sources that demonstrate illegal immigration is a net negative, in the hundreds of billions of dollars to the federal and state budgets. These figures are, of course, racist and xenophobic and should be ignored without prejudice.

- Doc

it has also often been noted that that conclusion is far from beyond rational dispute. Nor is it at all controversial that racists and zenophobes are the most avid proponents of that view.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Gunnar,

Do you advocate unfettered and open immigration?

- Doc

[_Hawkeye]

Hawkeye & Gunnar,

Why not open & unfettered immigration then?

Also, I want it noted the Interwebz is full of sources that demonstrate illegal immigration is a net negative, in the hundreds of billions of dollars to the federal and state budgets. These figures are, of course, racist and xenophobic and should be ignored without prejudice.

- Doc

Like I said, just go back to the way it was and stop acting like the sky is falling. We have a border, we enforce it like we always do, but we don't have a conniption fit because it isn't 100% perfect. Some will sneak through and many will return back to their country after they've made enough money. At the end of the day many American benefited directly from the work and services they provided and the rest of us will benefit by paying less for services in general. Something like 40% of all undocumented immigrants come by airplane anyway, and there is no chance in hell a wall is going to stop a determined migrant.

We need to stop calling this a "problem" that needs a solution because when we do we're just giving into the Trump rhetoric that is based on false information and yes, racism and xenophobia too. I mean you don't hear anyone talking about a border wall along the mostly Caucasian Canadian border, do you? And "finding things on the web" that say one thing is not the same as there being credible studies that say the opposite. Of all the academic peer reviewed studies on the subject almost all of them say illegal immigrants provide a net benefit to the economy, and some say there is neither a benefit or loss and others say the loss is only marginal. The only ones that say there is a huge loss are outliers.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Look, I'm guilty of not sourcing my assertions, like Hawkeye and Gunnar aren't doing, because I've seen this play out so many times it's ideological turtles all the way down. I'd just recommend lurkers take the time to research the issue. I've noticed more often then not when something is called something with the intent to stigmatize it in order to delegitimze it, it's because they fear the truth.

eta: I should note that Hawkeye is in support of the pre-Trump status quo, which was unusually cruel, resulted in many unnecessary deaths of men, women, and children in our deserts, and, yes, resulted in families being torn apart along the lines of what's happening now. It also resulted in millions living here in fear, never having their voices being represented in our democracy, and were/are second class citizens.

But, they can really knock out some sheet rock on the cheap, no?

Totally not racist, though...

- Doc

[_canpakes]

The only adult member of the Trump family who I have any respect for, our FLOTUS, has put herself on a plane and gone down there to Texas to see things first hand for herself.

Jersey Girl, I used to believe the same thing about FLOTUS, until today’s coat stunt.

I’ve never seen an Administration riddled with so many whiny, vindictive and immature folks as this one.

[Guest]

Look, I'm guilty of not sourcing my assertions, like Hawkeye and Gunnar aren't doing, because I've seen this play out so many times it's ideological turtles all the way down. I'd just recommend lurkers take the time to research the issue. I've noticed more often then not when something is called something with the intent to stigmatize it in order to delegitimze it, it's because they fear the truth.

eta: I should note that Hawkeye is in support of the pre-Trump status quo, which was unusually cruel, resulted in many unnecessary deaths of men, women, and children in our deserts, and, yes, resulted in families being torn apart along the lines of what's happening now. It also resulted in millions living here in fear, never having their voices being represented in our democracy, and were/are second class citizens.

But, they can really knock out some sheet rock on the cheap, no?

Totally not racist, though...

- Doc

As you well know, my comment was in the context of your remark about "supporting open borders." I don't believe we should have open borders, but that doesn't mean I "support" all of the problems you mentioned above, most of which have nothing to do with immigration policy. And families being "torn apart along the lines of what's happening now" simply isn't.

Here is a group of 8 Liberals who obviously don't care about Mexican lives. Providing water stations in the deserts because all they really want are future Liberal voters. Amirite?