A taste of Prager U

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_Jersey Girl
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Jersey Girl »

National identity, I'm not entirely sure what that means since I haven't read all of the discussion here and likely will not.

If someone asked me what we have lost in this country, I would say we've lost a "one for all, all for one" attitude that we once had--not that we ever had it entirely.

In my view, R & D's had a different way of facilitating that attitude, but I do think it both parties once had this "Up with America" attitude. I could be wrong.

In any case, the presidential election contained divisive rhetoric that likes of which I've never seen and I believe it was entirely corrosive. Basket of deplorables, you'd be in jail. Two candidates set the tone and the tone was repulsive to many while being the match that lit the fire of violence and racism to others.

And that's all I really have to say about it except for the belief that in many or most parts of the U.S. you can still find people living with goodwill towards their neighbor and the press chooses to present the vicious rhetoric instead of the goodwill, so of course we get the impression that the whole country is in a shambles.

When it is not.
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_Some Schmo
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Some Schmo »

I think the amount of national pride one feels has an indirect relationship with how much they acknowledge the country's problems, or how much they think those problems affect the nation's "greatness."

It seems like a contradiction on the part of Republicans to think America is great but the government is corrupt and useless. If the system of government and laws that facilitate the American lifestyle are so bad, what exactly is it that makes America great (that can't be said about any other country in the world)?
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_Ceeboo
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Ceeboo »

Jersey Girl wrote:In my view, R & D's had a different way of facilitating that attitude, but I do think it both parties once had this "Up with America" attitude. I could be wrong.

I remember reading an article (This was many years ago) about how our elected officials used to go out to eat together - or attend birthday parties for one another - or share a cocktail together - etc. This doesn't even seen possible today - I think for the most part (there are always exceptions) our elected officials can't stand those on the opposite side of the isle, they have real contempt for one another. That, in my opinion, is a real problem.

In any case, the presidential election contained divisive rhetoric that likes of which I've never seen and I believe it was entirely corrosive. Basket of deplorables, you'd be in jail. Two candidates set the tone and the tone was repulsive to many while being the match that lit the fire of violence and racism to others.

You'll get no argument from me regarding your suggestion about the rhetoric and corrosiveness that we saw during the last presidential election - but unfortunately, i think this has become much deeper and much wider than election hangovers. It's everywhere - literally everywhere.

(Your point about goodwill being alive and well is noted and appreciated.)
_Ceeboo
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Ceeboo »

Some Schmo wrote:bad, what exactly is it that makes America great

Absolutely nothing! (You're not the governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, in real life are you?)

(that can't be said about any other country in the world)?

No better than "any other country in the world???"

How about Iran?
_Some Schmo
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Some Schmo »

Ceeboo wrote:
(that can't be said about any other country in the world)?

No better than "any other country in the world???"

How about Iran?

Context matters, Ceeboo.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Ceeboo wrote:You'll get no argument from me regarding your suggestion about the rhetoric and corrosiveness that we saw during the last presidential election - but unfortunately, i think this has become much deeper and much wider than election hangovers. It's everywhere - literally everywhere.

(Your point about goodwill being alive and well is noted and appreciated.)


What I see reported on national news media doesn't reflect what I see going on around me, Ceebs. This is why I get the feeling that the news media is responsible for magnifying it--hyping it up. Were I to be perfectly honest, I think the news media is intentionally trying to manipulate the public and whip us up into a frenzy.

And so is Trump.
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_Some Schmo
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Some Schmo »

This is actually a pretty good example of why there's an "unbridgeable divide" in this country.

If one person asks this:

If the system of government and laws that facilitate the American lifestyle are so bad, what exactly is it that makes America great (that can't be said about any other country in the world)?

And someone else reads it like this:

No better than "any other country in the world???"

How on earth can any productive conversation proceed from there?
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_Xenophon
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Xenophon »

Ceeboo wrote:There was an article in Newsweek, by Ben Shapiro, that in my opinion speaks to this. To be fair - It shouldn't be surprising that I, being politically conservative, would share the opinions given by Shapiro, who is also politically conservative. So there is that - but I do think it offers at least one answer to the complex questions above.

Anyway - Here is his opinion piece (made blue by me to show that the words are not mine - but a Shapiro article.)

...{snip}...

Yeah - like many of his opinion pieces, they are most certainly written with a pen that slants heavily to the right (No different than the opinion pieces written by those who use pens that slant just as heavily to the left) - but even with that understanding, generally speaking, I thought his article was a worthy starting point to see where the discussions go - or don't go.
Thanks for trying to spur on the conversation, Ceeboo. Some of my thoughts on the topic generally but also as they relate to the Shapiro piece:

"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
_Some Schmo
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Some Schmo »

Xenophon wrote:Personally I don't see recognizing that the country has lots of room to improve as inherently a bad thing...

This is another one of those pernicious American attitudes: it's unpatriotic to criticize your own country.

Man, when I write documents, I suppose I should resist having them reviewed and be offended when anyone offers criticism to improve them. Otherwise, where's my loyalty to my work?
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_Ceeboo
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Ceeboo »

Xenophon wrote:Thanks for trying to spur on the conversation, Ceeboo.

You're welcome!
Some of my thoughts on the topic generally but also as they relate to the Shapiro piece:[list][*]It is worth pointing out that the survey Shapiro uses doesn't just indicate that pride in America is down on the Left, but also among those that identify as Independents and Moderates. I suspect a lot of that is tied heavily to Trump as President and a general worry about the tone of the country.........

Your point about this being heavily tied to Trump as President is noted (and in my opinion, very possible)
[*]I know that personally I have a hard time viewing "pride" with a positive connotation. Perhaps it is in my upbringing but I was always warned heavily to avoid hubris and for some reason that just tainted the word for me. If I were to answer a survey question of "Am I proud of X" I'd almost always have to shy away from "extremely" just out of principle.

Understood.
Personally I don't see recognizing that the country has lots of room to improve as inherently a bad thing,

Nor do I.
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