GIMR wrote:It's so nice having a discussion without Cog driveling about how the world is facist for not thinking in his bigoted way.
The hilarious part of that is that Scooter isn't even aware that much of his world view is damend near text book facism in nature. Next time he tosses out "facist" at someone ask him to define the term and you'll see that Scooter is just a sad little monkey with a thersuarus and a word-a-day calendar.
GIMR wrote:It's so nice having a discussion without Cog driveling about how the world is facist for not thinking in his bigoted way.
The hilarious part of that is that Scooter isn't even aware that much of his world view is damend near text book facism in nature. Next time he tosses out "facist" at someone ask him to define the term and you'll see that Scooter is just a sad little monkey with a thersuarus and a word-a-day calendar.
Lol.... Coffee, you really have to go back and find the post where "Scooter" (sidenote: why do you call him that?) went through and listed all of the various and sundry websites he reads each day in order to feel "educated." I can't recall what I said to him, but it really set him off. (I think I was bagging on him for having never earned a college degree.)
Mister Scratch wrote:Lol.... Coffee, you really have to go back and find the post where "Scooter" (sidenote: why do you call him that?) went through and listed all of the various and sundry websites he reads each day in order to feel "educated." I can't recall what I said to him, but it really set him off. (I think I was bagging on him for having never earned a college degree.)
Let me guess... He's got a BA/MA from the University of Google and did his PhD at Wiki State?
"Scooter" is one of many condescending little nicknames I grant to the slow of wit and thick of skull. he doesn't rate "Highspeed" or "Turbo", and I felt "champ" or "sport" would be a little to generic. So he is Scooter. It's also because he reminds me of the kind of creep that'd actually ride around on one of those gay little motorscooters.
You know, I was thinking about all those folks on message boards across the net who felt they were smarter than everyone else because they knew how to use Google.
I never thought I'd meet one in the flesh.
Scooter...that's hilarious.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
What is going on with Loran anyway? I suspect something must be going on in his life apart from the internet. Sometimes things happen that put us in a dither and that may be the reason why he was lashing out.
LOL, Loran has lashed out from the beginning. This is nothing new, the hysteria you see from him is just an indicator that he knows he's drowning intellectually here. His bigotry has been rejected in a very loud way, and he can't handle that. Calling us facists hasn't worked, writing attack songs hasn't worked, "shouting" hasn't worked. So now he just calls us mental and says we're on drugs, because that's the only way he can cope.
Wish he could follow you around for a day, Mok. But then again he might think you're a wolf in sheep's clothing, what with your progressive stance on the church.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
moksha wrote:What is going on with Loran anyway? I suspect something must be going on in his life apart from the internet. Sometimes things happen that put us in a dither and that may be the reason why he was lashing out.
My theory is that Coggins and Scratch are in real life neighbors...and due to an unhappy incident during a neighborhood BBQ they have had bad relations and only communicate on Mormon message boards. Come on guys...won't you be neighborly?
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
An effing joke. Seriously. How are you going to be able to take a census of every white person in this country, and then do the geneaology necessary to determine who are the descendants of the people responsible for slavery, and they have to be direct descendants, with no other ancestry involved, or else you insult the innocents. How long would this take, how much money would it cost? And then? How much money do you give the "victims" (I put that in quotes because that would include me, and I don't feel victimized by my country)?
This just isn't feasible. And it would do more damage to the race relations in this country than good. Yes, there are certain systems that were put in place in the past in this country to ensure that minorities as a whole did not prosper. But times are different now! It bugs me when I see black people of MY generation complaining that the "white man is against them". Bull damned crap! Here's a good one, I was in Bank of America one day, and a white woman had brought her dog inside the bank. Dog was just as docile as can be. Let me pet him. Well, two young girls about my age started complaining that "had it been them", they would have been kicked out. Little did they know that the Old Town district of the city I live in lets dogs in every retail establishment, in order to cater to the rich people who live there. Luckily, it was "one of our own" who put those kids in their place, and let them know this. I've heard that argument, "had it been us" so many damn times, it sickens me.
I work for what I have, but there are people who will look at me within my own racial community, and assume that I have approximately ten silver spoons stuck up my butt. You see, I'm light-skinned, with brownish-blonde hair. I speak proper English. The men I date work in tech jobs for global fortune-500 companies. I'm in school, and work full-time. All of this came to me because I "look like I'm white".
No the hell I don't!
You may not think I'm black, but you ain't gonna think I'm white. When I was in Germany, the natives thought I was "Afro-Deutsch" (half African, half German). It was pretty cool, blending in. I loved my life there. There, being mixed is beautiful. But here? You catch hell.
Kids used to follow me around school trying to figure out "what I was". And they weren't just black kids, it was kids of all races. I had a cousin who was abused because her eyes were "too light" (in other words, anything other than brown or black). If you acted like you had sense, you were "acting like you were white".
Where the hell did all of this come from? I have my theories.
There is no doubt that there have been perilous, and at the least difficult times for black Americans in history. But can we say this is the issue today? If you live in a ghetto, does that automatically mean that you have to stay there? I have relatives who swear up and down that they were never given a chance, and that is why they turned to crime, drugs, young parenthood. But I had the same problems! The same opportunities to mess up, and a hell of a lot more, so why did I come out clean? I'm behind in a lot of things, like school, but at least I'm going. What was different between me and them?
My brother used to tell me that I didn't understand what it meant to be black. And he was right, I forced myself to live in a world with no color, because I got tired of being followed and inquired about, I got tired of being teased and abused, threatened by my own race due to the way I looked and talked. People were just people to me, and when asked what I was, I would say, "I'm a person, what are you"? That is still my stance, but after my sojourn in the LDS church, and the difficulties I had there with cultural understanding, I understand a bit more what my brother, my mother, and those before her went through. My pain was purely emotional and psychological. But it still hurt.
I think that my generation has been listening to the elders a bit too much on this issue. We have not lived through Jim Crow, we've never seen someone lynched. We don't know what it's like to have a nasty water hole to swim in during the summer months that's way too crowded, while the white kids across town had a pool. We don't know what it feels like to have to fight for the right to go to college, and then deal with difficulties once we got there in the form of prejudice. Everything we have we've always had a right to, so I don't understand where this sentiment that America is so racist is coming from.
We aren't talking about it, so when things like Katrina happen, people assume that because most of those folks were black, that this is why it took so long to get help. But what about the people outside of New Orleans? Plenty of white people there, why weren't the cameras focused on them?
Why the hell is Imus unemployed? You can't convince me that at least two of the women on the Rutgers Women's Basketball team never referred to each other as nappy-headed, or even called each other ho's. I call my friend a ho all the time when playing with her, and she me. If a white person calls me that, so what? But then again, I've been called much on message boards, and since my exodus from FAIR, things like crazy, bitch, promniscuous (the bitch they never called me on FAIR, though in other places I've been graced with that name), they don't bother me anymore.
With regards to Kramer, my mother and I laughed our heads off at his antics. We were not at any time horrified. We don't use the word n*gger, and we thought it was in bad taste, but his tirade was more funny to us than anything. My friends laughed too. I think that in the case of both Imus and Richards, the country, in an attempt to appear to have everything under control, they overreacted in both cases. Richards didn't have to go on an apology tour, at least I don't think so, and a written, publicized apology from Imus would have been enough for me.
How can the black community get upset with white people for using their language. NEWSFLASH! N*gger is NEVER going to be a term of endearment, face it. The hip-hop community needs to focus less on bling and buttocks (how do you pluralize that?), and more on social issues. People will listen to that. I would.
My mother, my father, their mothers, their mothers' mothers, and on back had valid concerns. Their worlds were not stable, because they were in a situation where they could lose home, happines, and life...just because someone thought they were a lesser species for being black. The closest I've ever come to that is hearing the LDS church's seed of Cain doctrine, trying to swallow the "skins of blackness" teachings in the Book of Mormon and PoGP, not to mention the whole priesthood ban issue. Add to that the fear I could almost taste coming out of those men. I have black LDS friends who refuse to date white LDS men because "they may be cool, but I know their families won't be, and who wanted to be hated by their in-laws for the rest of their lives?". That's sad. Beautiful women still single because of some defunct teachings that really need to be eradicated. If anyone has contemporary race issues, it's the LDS church.
But as for me, since I'm no longer Mormon, race is not an issue. When I see people, I just see people. I see color only when necessary, and you can see it without being racist. Seeing color, seeing culture doesn't automatically mean you have to attach hate to it. I think folks like Cog are the ones who don't get this. They think that so long as you don't talk about it, it's ok. But the minute you start going into those places angels fear to tread, then you're a troublemaker, a race-baiter (as Juliann on MAD kept trying to convince everyone I was). But that's not so. We still need to talk as a nation, and I'm hoping that as time passes, this will happen.
Was it on this thread, or Cog's other thread gone dead...someone said we still had a generation who had seen racial injstice, that this generation would have to die off before we could see any more progress. I hope I had that right. Perhaps this is so. But then again, perhaps not. Those people have a lot to teach us, they've seen in essence two worlview realities in one lifetime. That interests me, I don't know if it does anyone else. They lived history, we're just learning from it.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
I have a question. When I was in Scotland, the black people there were very different from american blacks. They were real africans and spoke very proper english. No "ghetto" style of clothing.
Did you see this in Germany, and also did you ever have a discussion with any blacks in germany regarding slavery. I know that african tribes obviously dealt with it since they were the ones being drug off to america, even kidnapping the tribes they fought with selling them to the slave traders.
I guess what I'm wondering is how the Cain doctrine is taken from a black from Africa or Europe who hasnt dealt with racism to the degree that an American black has. I don't view it as a doctrine of hate. I view it as a simple doctrine of God working through families that have shown that they can bear the priesthood with honor, and working through them. Abraham struck up a deal with God and asked that his family bear the responsibilities of the priesthood, concerned for his progenys salvation.
I'm no global historian, but I wonder which of the old african tribes would have been able to bear the priesthood, or would have wanted to. The Zulu maybe? The groups in Ethiopia? The priesthood was restored only a short time, historically speaking, before it was given to the blacks in 1978. In view of history this is only around 150 years. In that time the blacks went through the release of slavery and the breakthru to mainstream acceptance as a people.
Just pondering
Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato