What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo

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_Ceeboo
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo

Post by _Ceeboo »

subgenius wrote:The Hitler Nonsense Is Just Nonsense And It Only Serves To Distract You From Reality.

While it certainly is nonsense - I think it has the potential to be more dangerous than simply distracting folks from reality - Nonsense like this is very dangerous in my opinion and it ought to be challenged when such ridiculous and self-serving comparisons are attempted.

Peace,
Ceeboo
_Doctor Steuss
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo

Post by _Doctor Steuss »

Markk wrote:The GOP was big time against Bill Clinton, and Obama; I can remember the right going after Bill on the Monica thing foaming at the mouth, and the left with GWB...but nothing close to what we are seeing today.

I apologize for not hyper-linking to sources. If you’d like, I can, but the number of results kind of made doing so a wee bit more cumbersome than I’m willing to undertake this early in the morning.

While it doesn't excuse the current hyperventilating comparisons to Trump...

- Ron Paul’s Texas House of Representatives successor, Randy Weber, Compared Obama to Hitler, and also called him a “Socialist Dictator.”

- Mike Huckabee once said of Obama’s foreign policy that “…he will take the Israelis and march them to the door of the oven.”

- Even McCain played with the comparison (although he at least went with a degree of separation) saying of Obama’s handshake with Raul Castro, “Neville Chamberlain shook hands with Hitler.”

- Then there was the “Comrade Obama” sign, with a picture of Hitler, in Georgia, and Iowa Tea Party billboard with Obama sandwiched between Hitler and Stalin.

- Drudge once compared Obama to Hitler, Lenin and Mao.

- A Blackstone chairman compared Obama to Hitler.

And so-on.

That being said, I saw a good amount (if not more) of the same with George Bush after the Patriot Act. To my regret, and shame, I even dabbled in the unwise comparisons with Bush.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
_Maksutov
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo

Post by _Maksutov »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Markk wrote:The GOP was big time against Bill Clinton, and Obama; I can remember the right going after Bill on the Monica thing foaming at the mouth, and the left with GWB...but nothing close to what we are seeing today.

I apologize for not hyper-linking to sources. If you’d like, I can, but the number of results kind of made doing so a wee bit more cumbersome than I’m willing to undertake this early in the morning.

While it doesn't excuse the current hyperventilating comparisons to Trump...

- Ron Paul’s Texas House of Representatives successor, Randy Weber, Compared Obama to Hitler, and also called him a “Socialist Dictator.”

- Mike Huckabee once said of Obama’s foreign policy that “…he will take the Israelis and march them to the door of the oven.”

- Even McCain played with the comparison (although he at least went with a degree of separation) saying of Obama’s handshake with Raul Castro, “Neville Chamberlain shook hands with Hitler.”

- Then there was the “Comrade Obama” sign, with a picture of Hitler, in Georgia, and Iowa Tea Party billboard with Obama sandwiched between Hitler and Stalin.

- Drudge once compared Obama to Hitler, Lenin and Mao.

- A Blackstone chairman compared Obama to Hitler.

And so-on.

That being said, I saw a good amount (if not more) of the same with George Bush after the Patriot Act. To my regret, and shame, I even dabbled in the unwise comparisons with Bush.



https://www.google.com/search?q=obama+as+Hitler&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjf6Kbx9aDZAhVN0WMKHU_EC9cQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=639
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Doctor Steuss
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo

Post by _Doctor Steuss »


Thank you.

In the results is an image of the before-mentioned Billboard that was paid for by the Tea Party in Iowa.

Image
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
_canpakes
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:If you can dispute the assertion from a position other than one of grammar, then please do so.

Sure, see below. But I mentioned this because the peculiar emphatic structure is so interesting. I imagine that if you were speaking the post, your style of speech would land somewhere between 'Teleprompter Trump' and 'Drunk Christopher Walken'.


subgenius wrote:So, while I can easily concede that "using fear" is a standard and typical political device, it is rather absurd to associate Trump with Hitler. It is rather like comparing Sanders to Mussolini because "socialism".

Well, there are obvious differences between Trump and Hitler. As example, Hitler clearly displayed a certain panache with his choice of clothing that is unmatched by Trump, and had an arguably better hairstyle, to boot.

On the other hand, there are similarities. For example, and as far as we know, there's no proof that Trump has never put anyone to death by gassing them, yet. And, as you have so eloquently argued within this same forum in past days, there is no evidence that Hitler ever did the same, either.


subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:I'd again point to Trump's own acceptance speech at he RNC, wherein he presented a list of bogeymen and terrible situations to his eager audience, and then proclaimed, "I alone can fix it".

Again, the use of this rhetorical device in a political speech is common and cliché'.

Yes, and usually done by petty dictator-types, to sycophantic audiences easily swayed by and preferring flattery and emotion over the relative boredom of hard facts and reality.


subgenius wrote:Oh, i know i have unresolved psychological conditions, and currently my ability to recognize them is the most glaring distinction between myself and almost every liberal/Democrat omg-Hitler! post on this board. :smile:

Then I'd suppose that it's a helpful start to be aware of the condition before it ends up completely limiting your engagement with others to little more than dull insults and puerile name-calling. ; )
_Fence Sitter
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo

Post by _Fence Sitter »

Trump isn't the next Hitler, he's a political version of Joseph Smith.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Some Schmo
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo

Post by _Some Schmo »

Ceeboo wrote:While it certainly is nonsense - I think it has the potential to be more dangerous than simply distracting folks from reality - Nonsense like this is very dangerous in my opinion and it ought to be challenged when such ridiculous and self-serving comparisons are attempted.

OK... so... Does that mean you're going to challenge the comparison? Or are you just saying somebody should? Do you have someone in mind?
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Ceeboo
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo

Post by _Ceeboo »

Some Schmo wrote:
Ceeboo wrote:While it certainly is nonsense - I think it has the potential to be more dangerous than simply distracting folks from reality - Nonsense like this is very dangerous in my opinion and it ought to be challenged when such ridiculous and self-serving comparisons are attempted.

OK... so... Does that mean you're going to challenge the comparison?

I thought I already did. Let me try it again, It's complete nonsense!
Or are you just saying somebody should?

I'm suggesting that any adult that is responsible, rational and balanced ought to call out such absurdity when they see it.
Do you have someone in mind?

Yes - Me.

Peace,
Ceeboo
_MeDotOrg
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo

Post by _MeDotOrg »

So that everyone is clear when I make any comparison between Hitler and Trump, there are obvious difference. Trump is not going to annex the Ruhr and the Sudentenland, invade Poland or kill 6 million Jews.

Both men represent answers for countries in paroxysms of self-doubt, but you have to understand that Germany by the 1930s was in VASTLY worse shape than the United States is today. Germany lost 2 million men in World War I, when it had a population of 64 million people. To have the same percentage of casualties in a war today, the United States would have to lose TEN MILLION MEN. Less than a million men have died in all American wars. So wrap your head around a war where nearly every day for 4 years you looked in the paper expecting to see the name of someone you knew as a casualty.

And then imagine what it was like in the field for the German soldier. Adolf Hitler was a soldier, and by all accounts a brave, if not exceptional one. Imagine coming home from a war where you saw most young men your age get killed. Then imagine when you got home you discovered your country had signed a treaty crippling it was massive war reparations that would be paid over 40 years. It's not hard to imagine feeling boiling rage.

Germany's solution to war reparations was to simply print more more money, which drastically reduced the value of money in circulation. True, they were paying back their creditors with worthless money, but it was the same worthless money that its citizens needed for transactions in their daily lives.

Image

Money became worthless. People who owned things, like factories or business still had their capital, but if you were a salaried person of the middle class, you were sunk. The hyperinflation destroyed the middle class in a period of a few years.

What we are experiencing here in the United States has been a slow erosion of the middle class over decades. It has been a sizable drop, and middle class equity was certainly seriously injured in the Mortgage crisis of 2008, but nowhere as dramatic and pervasive as the hyperinflation in Germany.

So both countries are dealing with hits to their middle class, but the hit to the U.S. middle class is nowhere near what it was in the Weimar Republic. And the middle class is the center of the country. When the middle class gets smaller, the class differences between rich and poor are exacerbated, and the country becomes more polarized. In our country the Democratic and Republican parties have become more liberal and conservative respectively. In the Weimar Republic, there were pitched battles between Fascists and Communists in the streets. Imagine clashes like the one in Charlottesville being common events. So when you think of the political choices in Germany, don't think liberal or conservative, think Alt-Right and Antifa, only worse.

But the United States has a lot going for it as opposed to the Weimar Republic. The first official act of the Weimar Republic was to sign the Treaty of Versailles, which was both economic ruin and national shame for Germany. The German people did not have 200 years of democratic tradition to guide them. Democracy was new, and the Weimar Republic will always be associated with the shameful treaty. Life under the Kaiser had for the most part been a lot better than life under the Weimar Republic. So for Germans, going to a totalitarian government was not a huge break in their history.

So while I see the style of Trump and Hitler being similar in appealing to the worst fears of their followers, the countries, cultures and the realities of political and economic history are vastly different. We're seeing similar kinds of Nationalism in response to a perceived threat against the Nation by a significant portion of the population. And again, this nationalism is forged in the fire at the heart of a very different nation. But both Trump and Hitler are tribalists, whether building a thousand year Reich or Making America Great Again.
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo

Post by _Kevin Graham »

I'm suggesting that any adult that is responsible, rational and balanced ought to call out such absurdity when they see it.


No, there is nothing irrational or irresponsible about trying to learn from history. One doesn't have to kill 6 million people in order to share similar qualities to Hitler. I don't think anyone really believes Trump would commit genocide against any race. But the similarities in the way he acts and thinks are hard to ignore.

What disturbs me the most is the way his loyal followers allow no moral or logical impediment to dissuade them from their course. He is their leader no matter what. If any facts get in the way, then seek alternative facts and attack the media as the unpatriotic enemy of the people. Seriously, the things Trump has said and done in the span of 24 months with zero political repercussions is stunning. But is this a testament to the greatness of Trump or the stupidity of his loyal followers? Trump said he could murder someone in daylight and not lose their support. Hitler obviously believed he could wipe out an entire race and not lose support. Sometimes I have to wonder what it would ever take to get Trump's strongest supporters on the religious Right to turn on him.

So far he has indulged in every major sin save murder, and knowledge of his sins have only strengthened their support.

Sex with a porn star after your wife just gave birth? No problem for the party of family values.

Turning Washington into the most corrupt place on earth? No problem for those who say they elected him to "drain the swamp."

Insulting war heroes like John McCain and dishonoring Gold Star families? No problem for the party that claims to have the military's back.

Mocking women and the disabled? Pffft. Trump just says hold my beer and I'll top that next week with a dose of treason, obstruction of justice and a dozen tweets that prove I'm a senile old man who can barely write coherent sentences.

If Trump had the powers of a dictator there is really no telling how far he'd try to go to fulfill his perceived destiny as the ultimate leader.
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