Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteria

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_Chap
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Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri

Post by _Chap »

Ceeboo wrote:.. it is my view that there are indeed a number of possibilities. Among these many possibilities (and at the top of my personal list) is Trump's enormous ego. The mere suggestion that his 2016 victory may be - or may be seen - as somehow ill-won is an extremely strong driving force for someone that possesses the vanity and narcissism that he exhibits. In my mind, it's the same with firing Comey. Simply put, this isn't about some nefarious plot, it's about Trump's ridiculous ego problem.


Ceeboo wrote:What's your answer?


The ego is certainly part of the answer. I'd say that Putin was well aware that (for the reason you give) Trump was extremely likely to use his power and influence to the maximum to stop or geld any serious investigation of the Russian role in the 2016 election. They were thus quite safe to pursue by all possible means what they considered to be the more damaging option to American interests in particular, and to wider western interests in general - the election of an ignorant and wilful man as US president. And they found people in Trump's circle willing to help - not because they loved Mother Russia, but because a Trump victory was hugely in the personal and economic interests of his close supporters.

How much Trump knew about this, and if so at what stage, I don't currently feel able to say. But his record of shameless and open lying is such that any denial by him carries no weight at all: like all habitual liars, he is probably capable of convincing himself that he knew nothing, even if he really did, and that Russia did nothing to help him win the election, even if he knows that they really did.
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_Themis
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Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri

Post by _Themis »

Ceeboo wrote:I never said it was unanswerable. I said that I didn't know the answer. Still don't. I gave you my opinion as what the most likely answer is.

What's your answer?


In most cases this is all we have in deciding if we are going to support and vote for a certain politician. You gave your opinion based on some evidence you know about Trump. I do think there is a lot of evidence of Trump have a massive ego, but we also have a lot of evidence of his treatment of Russia, his many connections to Russia, and his many tantrums about wanting the investigation to be stopped, and his promoting Russian objectives that will hurt the US. If I were you I would be far more worried about Trump then some journalist whose description of this meeting goes a little over the top and everyone will forget in a day or two.
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_Ceeboo
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Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri

Post by _Ceeboo »

Themis wrote:If I were you I would be far more worried about Trump then some journalist whose description of this meeting goes a little over the top and everyone will forget in a day or two.


I'm not worried about some journalist. I made a thread about equating something to 911 or Pearl Harbor or the Holocaust because I thought it might be an interesting discussion and I wanted to measure my personal opinions about said equating to what other board members opinions were/are (It has not been an interesting thread at all in my opinion (It happens I guess) as there has been very little discussion - there has been a lot of Trump talk and other things, like your above advice to me about what I ought to be worried about)

Yeah - I'm worried but I'm not worried about Trump or some nefarious plot with Russia or some journalist. I'm worried about the unbridgeable political divide that this country finds itself in.

You think this is really about Trump? What happens in 2020? 2024? 2030? 2037?
Trump will be long gone (perhaps as soon as 2020?) but you know who will remain? The millions and millions of American citizens who are now being labeled as a Nazi or a racist or a fascist - And why are these millions upon millions on American citizens being labeled these disgusting and horrific things? Because they exercised their constitutional right to cast a vote - nothing more.

So when I see someone equating Trump/Putin/Helsinki with 911, Pearl Harbor or the Holocaust I find it more than just a little troubling. I find it to be hysterical - And given that I personally believe America currently finds itself in the very unstable position of an unbridgeable political divide, the last thing it needs at the moment is unbalanced hysteria, irresponsible accusations and/or unreasonable comparisons to such horrific and dreadful events.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Ceeboo wrote:
Nobody, of course, was asking for anything but a reasoned opinion from you. And with some help, you (finally) gave it.


What do I get?


You get better understood and open others to considering the validity of your position. Possibly adopt your perspective or refine why they reject it.

You're welcome.
:-)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Ceeboo
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Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri

Post by _Ceeboo »

Jersey Girl wrote:
You get better understood and open others to considering the validity of your position. Possibly adopt your perspective or refine why they reject it.

You're welcome.
:-)


Thanks! :)
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Ceeboo wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
You get better understood and open others to considering the validity of your position. Possibly adopt your perspective or refine why they reject it.

You're welcome.
:-)


Thanks! :)


It's a win:win for all concerned if you allow it to happen. K, I'm outta this.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Themis
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Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri

Post by _Themis »

Ceeboo wrote:Yeah - I'm worried but I'm not worried about Trump or some nefarious plot with Russia or some journalist. I'm worried about the unbridgeable political divide that this country finds itself in.


You should be worried about them because of where things can lead, but it is not just this issue. Trump is in a position to have the most influence but he is the one who creating and promoting all this hysteria and hatred. You do not see this from past presidents on either side. Their language tended to try and bridge the divide while Trump does the opposite. The people in the best position to bridge gaps are the politicians in how they engage with opponents. These kind of qualities I would describe as making one qualified to be president and Trump goes the other way. If you are serious about bridging gaps you should recognize Trump needs to go for this to even be a possibility right now.
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_aussieguy55
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Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri

Post by _aussieguy55 »

It s interesting that Helsinki can put its entire population underground in case of attack. Who do they think might attack them? mmmmm
Hilary Clinton " I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's GDP.I won in places are optimistic diverse, dynamic, moving forward"
_canpakes
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Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri

Post by _canpakes »

honorentheos wrote:
canpakes wrote:If the thread is to be concerned generally with "comments made that I believe are hysterical and way over the top", then inclusion of any number of tweets and statements by the President could easily qualify to be included. : )

This is what's odd to me. Is the thread just a test to see if those who may watch MSNBC rather than Fox News are capable of acknowledging the reporter went from reporting the news to overdramatizing commentary about it? The challenge with setting it up that way, if that is the intent, is it is asking for a value judgment about two very differently weighted events. It's inevitable that most people would respond, "Sure I can agree with that, but..."

As well, this is a step removed from the worst sort of “hysterical and way over the top” comments that erupt from our political divide. This place s where I wish that Trump had the balls to step in and reign in attitudes that he is otherwise amplifying at the moment. He tweets out his ‘enemy of the people’ accusations, and then we get this sort it f thing as a result:

A supporter of President Donald Trump threatened “to shoot” CNN reporters Brian Stelter and Don Lemon during an on-air call with C-SPAN on Friday.

The caller’s threat comes amid repeated attacks on the media from Trump, who has described the press as “the enemy of the people” and “fake news.”

The caller, identified by C-SPAN host Greta Brawner as “Don from State College, Pennsylvania,” had phoned into her show Friday to express support for Trump’s criticism of the media.

“It all started when Trump got elected,” the caller said before falsely accusing the reporters of labeling all Trump supporters as racist.
“[Stelter and Lemon] don’t even know us. They don’t even know these Americans out here and they’re calling us racist because we voted for Trump.”

“They started the war. If I see ’em, I’m going to shoot ’em. Bye,” he added before abruptly ending the call.


On the one hand, we have some folks stating hyperbolic characterizations of the President’s actions. On the other hand, we have folks identifying as Trump supporters threatening to shoot folks who don’t agree with them. I’m not sure how one side goes about addressing certain issues in the face of death threats from the other side.
_canpakes
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Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri

Post by _canpakes »

Ceeboo wrote:So when I see someone equating Trump/Putin/Helsinki with 911, Pearl Harbor or the Holocaust I find it more than just a little troubling. I find it to be hysterical -

To give a fair examination of the claim, It’s possible that it was not intending to relate only specifically to the action that Trump committed on that day so much as what the commentator believes that the implications will be down the road. Not that this means that it cannot still be overly hyperbolic, but those implications, if they were to come true, are fairly serious and damaging.


Ceeboo wrote:And given that I personally believe America currently finds itself in the very unstable position of an unbridgeable political divide, the last thing it needs at the moment is unbalanced hysteria, irresponsible accusations and/or unreasonable comparisons to such horrific and dreadful events.

If only the people who believed as much were wiling to call Trump out for having the greatest negative influence within this dysfunctional dialog.
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