Should Democrats Impeach?

[_SPG]

Can't do it.

I meant that you cannot name a single crime that Trump committed.

[_Kevin Graham]

Obstruction of justice for starters. Campaign finance violations, he's an unindicted co-conspirator guilty of multiple felonies according to SDNY. He's guilty of tax fraud, which he'll answer for when he leaves office.

But that's just a short list that doesn't even get into the long list of impeachable offenses.

[_Some Schmo]

Can't do it.

I meant that you cannot name a single crime that Trump committed.

You're the one who seems to have this problem.

I can name plenty, but then, I'm paying attention.

[_Some Schmo]

Obstruction of justice for starters. Campaign finance violations, he's an unindicted co-conspirator guilty of multiple felonies according to SDNY. He's guilty of tax fraud, which he'll answer for when he leaves office.

But that's just a short list that doesn't even get into the long list of impeachable offenses.

Don't forget multiple counts of sexual assault, using an unsecured phone for government business, inciting violence, and suborning perjury, to name a few more.

[_honorentheos]

At this point I think impeachment proceedings wouldn't end before the election was right on top of us. I think Democrats would do well to tell the American people they trust them to determine if they are for selling out the future for ratings, or join a cause that is future focused and willing to roll up it's sleeves to tackle healthcare, climate change, creating a sustainable economy, etc.

Of course they should impeach. That's their job. Oversight and accountability.

Impeaching Trump isn't a matter of law enforcement. It would be a matter of politics. And I think the politics say it's a bad move, whereas focusing on a future-based message not unlikely the 2018 mid-term strategy is a better play. There will be plenty of people who turn out in 2020 to vote in opposition to Trump. But making it an election about deplorables and Trump undercuts what should be a pretty decent bit of momentum.

Let's be clear - Trump is about as filthy and corrupt a President as we've had. But the things I think make for the best reasons for pursuing impeachment didn't need the Mueller report.

The Democrats just took the House and they're not even going to do their basic Constitutional duty of impeachment?

Pretty sure that didn't make it into Article 1, but let's check.

ARTICLE 1
Section 8.
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

Section 9.
The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported from any state.

No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one state over those of another: nor shall vessels bound to, or from, one state, be obliged to enter, clear or pay duties in another.

No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law; and a regular statement and account of receipts and expenditures of all public money shall be published from time to time.

No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.

Section 10.
No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress.

No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.

Nope.

It's under Article 2 and it is not exactly spelled out what the Congress should consider high crimes and misdemeanors. But they do have an obligation to govern. I think impeachment proceedings interfer with that. This close to the election, it would be politically smart to make sure the public knows that this is about democracy and getting out to make sure their voices are heard because it matters.

[_Some Schmo]

Elizabeth Warren thinks they should impeach so that every congressman and senator has to go on record with a vote. That's the best reason I've heard yet.

Still not sure if it would be healthy for the nation.

The bottom line, though, is that if Trump gets away with it, this country has fundamentally changed. It sets a terrible precedent.

[_SPG]

Obstruction of justice for starters. Campaign finance violations, he's an unindicted co-conspirator guilty of multiple felonies according to SDNY. He's guilty of tax fraud, which he'll answer for when he leaves office.

But that's just a short list that doesn't even get into the long list of impeachable offenses.

Don't forget multiple counts of sexual assault, using an unsecured phone for government business, inciting violence, and suborning perjury, to name a few more.

You guys are funny. It's ok for a president to declare war and bomb a nation, but covering legal fees for someone is inciting violence.

All these things you have mentioned are disparate attempts to find something.

Mueller got a confessed liar to lie. Tax fraud was about his dad and isn't about him.

You don't have anything, and anything that is almost something was gotten with questionable means, like digging up tax records that are 50 plus years old, or raiding the private attorney office, threatening his attorney, threatening people that worked for Trump. None of this would stick in a court of law, they are empty accusations.

[_Jersey Girl]

All these things you have mentioned are disparate attempts to find something.

Really. How disparate are they?

[_moksha]

While some actions outlined in the Mueller Report seem despicable, the process of gathering more information from the Mueller Report and interviewing witnesses in order to avoid acting rashly seems wise.

Waiting for the findings from State investigations could also be helpful in Congress making an informed decision.

As far as the likelihood of an impeachment, the odds are against it. Trump could shoot and kill someone in broad daylight in front of a thousand witnesses and the Republican Senate would still exonerate him. It is only when the majority of voters in their home districts want Trump brought to justice, or being offered large donations for their reelection compaign, that these Senators would reconsider their position on Trump.

[_SPG]

While some actions outlined in the Mueller Report seem despicable, the process of gathering more information from the Mueller Report and interviewing witnesses in order to avoid acting rashly seems wise.

Waiting for the findings from State investigations could also be helpful in Congress making an informed decision.

As far as the likelihood of an impeachment, the odds are against it. Trump could shoot and kill someone in broad daylight in front of a thousand witnesses and the Republican Senate would still exonerate him. It is only when the majority of voters in their home districts want Trump brought to justice, or being offered large donations for their reelection compaign, that these Senators would reconsider their position on Trump.

Trump supporters want justice. What Mueller had brought is nothing compared to the crimes we want. But it's not helpful to try and point out what we want.