Anti-Abortion Insanity

[_Chap]

EAllusion can obviously expand/respond but he has offered up some examples before. The most recent one I could find: viewtopic.php?p=1167078#p1167078

Thanks, but after considering the three 'cabin analogies' given in that post:

1. It might be thought right for you to break into a well-stocked cabin and eat the supplies therein in order to avoid dying of cold and want.

2. It might be thought to be a moral obligation for you to lodge and feed in your well-stocked cabin a stranger who would otherwise die of cold and want.

3. Same as 2. except the person is injured and tiny and has to be carried around on your back all the time.

- I certainly don't find a close parallel with the sick violinist who has been hooked up to your body in order to survive, and even less can I find a close parallel with the experience of a woman who (possibly against her will) finds that her body has begun to be a support system for an increasingly demanding and growing organism, which in all likelihood she will have to continue to care for after it leaves her body.

Indeed, I'd say that that the intimacy and hugely intrusive and demanding nature of that experience is very hard, even well-nigh impossible to parallel with any other experience. And it's one that no man will ever have ...

[_Some Schmo]

It seems to me the majority of people for making abortion illegal are people who can't have babies, or were already culturally coerced to have theirs.

If we were to poll only the women still capable of having babies, we'd likely see overwhelming support for safe, legal abortion facilities.

[_Chap]

It seems to me the majority of people for making abortion illegal are people who can't have babies, or were already culturally coerced to have theirs.

If we were to poll only the women still capable of having babies, we'd likely see overwhelming support for safe, legal abortion facilities.

One recent poll suggests that there is not in fact a great deal of difference between men and women on this issue:

Nearly six-in-ten Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases

Among the public overall, there are no significant gender differences in views of whether abortion should be legal: 57% of men and 60% of women say it should be legal in most or all cases. Within both parties, the views of men and women are largely aligned: 78% of Democratic women and 73% of Democratic men say abortion should be legal in all or most cases; similarly, 42% of Republican men and 34% of Republican women say the same.

But of course that does not really answer your point, which was specifically about the views of women of child-bearing age.

[_Gunnar]

If we were to poll only the women still capable of having babies, we'd likely see overwhelming support for safe, legal abortion facilities.

I think you are probably right there. I think that if women of child bearing age were acknowledged as the final, definitive arbiters in the debate over Roe V. Wade, the debate would probably already be decisively settled in its favor, once and for all. Why should men (especially elderly men) have more say than women in matters concerning their own bodies, particularly reproductive health issues? As pointed in one of my posts above, strong anti-abortion policies are bad for all women--even those who are themselves anti-abortion.

[_subgenius]

It seems to me the majority of people for making abortion illegal are people who can't have babies, or were already culturally coerced to have theirs.

If we were to poll only the women still capable of having babies, we'd likely see overwhelming support for safe, legal abortion facilities.

Yeah! and why can't a murder trial only have a jury composed of murderers? People trying to keep burglary illegal have never bothered to steal stuff...or they don't have stuff to steal anyway...

Bet if i imagine something as beimg true it would probably be true...yeah.

[_Chap]

I think that if women of child bearing age were acknowledged as the final, definitive arbiters in the debate over Roe V. Wade, the debate would probably already be decisively settled in its favor, once and for all.

Yeah! and why can't a murder trial only have a jury composed of murderers?

Umm, being a woman of child-bearing age is not yet a federal crime, so your parallel seems to me a little inexact.

Of course, you follow Trump's tweets and I don't, so maybe I am out of date on this one.

[_Some Schmo]

I think if we're going to accept that abortion is tantamount to murder, then we must also acknowledge that letting children starve is tantamount to murder.

Therefore, if you are against SNAP/public assistance for children (including all the unwanted children because abortion is murder), you're a goddamn murderer.

[_Kevin Graham]

[_Gunnar]

I think that if women of child bearing age were acknowledged as the final, definitive arbiters in the debate over Roe V. Wade, the debate would probably already be decisively settled in its favor, once and for all.

Yeah! and why can't a murder trial only have a jury composed of murderers?

Umm, being a woman of child-bearing age is not yet a federal crime, so your parallel seems to me a little inexact.

Of course, you follow Trump's tweets and I don't, so maybe I am out of date on this one.

Yeah, how about that, Subby; is being a woman of child-bearing age a federal crime now? Why do you hate women so much?

Let me ask you another question. How would you react if your own wife was suspected of or arrested for fetal homicide merely because she had a miscarriage? Unlikely, you say? Probably, so far, but there are already documented cases of that having happened. It seems that there really are extreme anti-abortionist officials who seem ready or even eager to view any case of miscarriage with suspicion, despite the fact that miscarriage is in the range of 8 to 20 percent. And this does not even count the cases of spontaneous miscarriages and abortions that occur before the woman even knows she is pregnant.

Miscarriage in early pregnancy is common. Studies show that about 8 to 20 percent of women who know they are pregnant have a miscarriage some time before 20 weeks of pregnancy; 80 percent of these occur in the first 12 weeks [1]. But the actual rate of miscarriage is even higher since many women have very early miscarriages without ever realizing that they are pregnant. One study that followed women's hormone levels every day to detect very early pregnancy found a total miscarriage rate of 31 percent [2].

My own wife had at least one miscarriage in the early years of our marriage. I'm glad we were not living in a state like Tennessee at the time.

It does not really matter whether a woman is pro- or anti-abortion. In states like Tennessee, with its freshly passed anti-abortion amendment, you can be arrested for having a miscarriage.

[_Kevin Graham]

A lady friend of mine shared this on Facebook...

The abortion stuff makes me want to share all kinds of inappropriate things all over social media. Because, WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? Ectopic pregnancy? Heartbeat? My stories are from the other side of abortion, about being a person desperately wanting a viable pregnancy, exceedingly grateful for the heartbeat on the screen, and then finding it gone. And then requiring surgery. Because what is left behind is not a heartbeat anymore. And the viable babies? When one was 22 weeks along (arms and legs and a little face), I got the call that there was a 1/10 chance that he would be born unable to breathe, swallow, live, after he was born. I was so lucky--I got (expensive and definitive) testing THE NEXT DAY, and found out that the little one would be our Luke, who is now 12 years old. But those five days, while we waited for those test results? If things had gone differently, I don't know what we'd have done. I wanted to die myself rather than have to manage that kind of news, that kind of medical nightmare. But to have the police involved in the most painful chapter of my life? I just don't know how that can work. I don't know how people can make the leap, thinking that women are so insane and inept that we are out there committing mass murder, that as a gender, we're serial killers. Baby killers. I don't get it.
So here's my inappropriate share. I'll probably delete it in 20 minutes when I get my crap together.