The Downward Spiral of Contempt

[Cultellus]

Are we still pretending that contempt started on Jan 6, 2021 and only goes a single direction? If that ever changes let me know. Thanks.

We never were.

Oh. Great. That is excellent.

[honorentheos]

So, I’m reading a book that sees what we commonly describe as race issues in terms of caste. It’s a comparison among the caste systems of India, Nazi Germany, and the USA. It’s not a new idea. Some anthropologists described the US as a caste system as far back as the 40s.

Contempt plays a significant role in keeping a caste structure in place — especially when directed at the lowest caste: The dahlit in India, the Jews in Nazi Germany, and Black Africans in the US. Part of the power of contempt is that the least well off in the penultimate class always has someone to look down on and despise.

But what happens when the lower end of the upper caste looks around and sees members of the bottom caste becoming better off economically or socially than they are? Maybe this spiral of contempt is the US struggling through the breakdown of its caste system. All the contempt that was formerly directed to the bottom caste is chaotically being flung everywhere as everyone tries to establish caste dominance and avoid becoming the new subordinate caste.

It’s an interesting perspective because the caste structure is embedded in the system that comes to be accepted as normal. At least until the subordinate caste decides it’s getting the raw end of the deal.

Thanks for sharing this, Res. This gets at why I thought to bump the Post-Modernism/Meta-narrative thread as this discussion was taking place.

It's in that context that I think the idea of a US caste system (as structure) also needs to be examined in tangent with the narratives used to come up with the theory, and see if we can catch a glimpse at the meta-narratives involved. Because there are more than one here. There's the one assumed to be supporting the existence of the caste system. And there are the meta-narratives of both those assumed to be benefiting as well as oppressed by the structure. Anger and contempt (anger+disgust) seem to be emotional reactions to contact over time with others that perhaps pushes and distorts one's understanding of the meta-narrative framing the beliefs and actions of the other, while pulling and distorting into perceived virtue the narrative and underlying framing of one's own beliefs and actions...perhaps...we get the heated bigots and the angry protester all assured they are justified because structure and narrative are supporting them.

I don't know. Caste systems versus class structure may be worth differentiating. Just using the one term over the other is a framing device in and of itself that changes both the narratives of those engaging it and their emotional reactions to it, right? Making it an example of how the medium become part of the message, discourse consumed that influences future media and discourse.

All of which brings me back to the point of the OP. Meta-cognition of one's choices to act/will into being the good of others may be the only real and genuine solution here.

[Xenophon]

Honor, thanks so much for posting it. I finally had the time to digest this today.

I'm obviously a bit biased towards this line of thinking. I like to believe it is reflective of some things I've tried to do in my own life. The idea that we won't persuade anyone to our way of thinking with insults just makes sense to me. Keeping in mind that I'm still terrible at it. It is a hard process, especially if at times you feel like you're the only one making the leap.

A call out for strategy that I think I don't think we've covered yet:

The Dalai Lama himself says that we "practice warm-heartedness". He suggests we do this by recalling a time when we've answered contempt with kindness, reflect on that feeling, then work to recreate it. This is connected to his principle that it is the practice and act that matter more than the belief at first. Effectively you condition yourself to deal with contempt with love and the belief in it will flow from that. "Fake it till you make it" so to speak. (I've added his book to my list, hopefully he expands further on this)

As to the idea that this all goes away with a new generation I'm not hopeful. I think Kish's recent post about internal academia strife highlights that well. Even assuming all Republicans died tomorrow that wouldn't end societal contempt for those of the out group. The left would just change who the out group is (or vice versa if you prefer). Tribalism runs far too deep in our bones to be solved by some people aging out.

[Alf'Omega]

Are we still pretending that contempt started on Jan 6, 2021 and only goes a single direction? If that ever changes let me know. Thanks.

Quite literally the first cited portion in the OP:

The current American polarization has been building for a while now. Here’s an example: in the 1960’s, only 42 percent of votes in the U.S. Senate were party-unity votes — that is, votes in which the majority of Republicans opposed the majority of Democrats, or vice versa. By the 2010’s, that number had risen to 63 percent. Here’s some more data to consider: in 1935, the Social Security Act was passed with 90 percent Democratic support and 75 percent Republican support. So — not unanimous, but united. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed with just 60 percent Democratic support but, again, 75 percent Republican. If you look at the major legislation passed in recent years, however, it’s a different story. ObamaCare made it through Congress with zero Republican votes. President Trump’s 2018 tax-reform bill made it through with zero Democratic votes. This political partisanship is clearly echoed in the public. Consider how people think about the media. In 2016, the Pew Research Center found that 83 percent of Democrats trusted information from national news organizations, along with 70 percent of Republicans. Today, 78 percent of Democrats still trust the major media but Republican trust in just a few years dropped from 70 percent to 35 percent. So, how did we get here? What’s been driving this intense spike in division and partisanship?

[Gadianton]

The work was in getting them to show up, period. Does it really, REALLY matter if some people are blowing off steam or LARPing? Or there to hang Mike Pence if he didn't overturn the election?


Being there made the amount of extra energy needed more important than their position when they decided to go there or what their motives might have been.

I sort of agree. My answer is that most were there to blow off steam and LARP. That my right-wing friends, in their morning rants, are mostly blowing off steam. I think it's important in the sense that it shows the real slippery slope you can go down when running with a crowd. I think the LARPing aspect is useful for binding a not-entirely homogeneous bunch of people together as a voting block. The voting isn't necessarily for anything that's going to help them. Mostly symbolic victories and keep taxes low for rich.

[Gadianton]

Contempt plays a significant role in keeping a caste structure in place — especially when directed at the lowest caste: The dahlit in India, the Jews in Nazi Germany, and Black Africans in the US. Part of the power of contempt is that the least well off in the penultimate class always has someone to look down on and despise.

Surely, the dahlit must have some contempt for their persecutors, don't they? How bad is that in comparison? And what about elitist liberals who are well off, and have sympathy for the lowest caste, and have contempt for the upper caste for its contempt of the lowest caste? Isn't calling out the upper caste for its contempt just as bad?

[Res Ipsa]

Contempt plays a significant role in keeping a caste structure in place — especially when directed at the lowest caste: The dahlit in India, the Jews in Nazi Germany, and Black Africans in the US. Part of the power of contempt is that the least well off in the penultimate class always has someone to look down on and despise.

Surely, the dahlit must have some contempt for their persecutors, don't they? How bad is that in comparison? And what about elitist liberals who are well off, and have sympathy for the lowest caste, and have contempt for the upper caste for its contempt of the lowest caste? Isn't calling out the upper caste for its contempt just as bad?

I don’t know that contempt is the right word. Fear? Yes. Anger? Yes. But contempt requires a feeling of superiority that isn’t part of the experience of being a Dalit.

[canpakes]

The work was in getting them to show up, period. Does it really, REALLY matter if some people are blowing off steam or LARPing? Or there to hang Mike Pence if he didn't overturn the election?


Being there made the amount of extra energy needed more important than their position when they decided to go there or what their motives might have been.

I sort of agree. My answer is that most were there to blow off steam and LARP. That my right-wing friends, in their morning rants, are mostly blowing off steam. I think it's important in the sense that it shows the real slippery slope you can go down when running with a crowd. I think the LARPing aspect is useful for binding a not-entirely homogeneous bunch of people together as a voting block. The voting isn't necessarily for anything that's going to help them. Mostly symbolic victories and keep taxes low for rich.

“When do we get to use the guns?”

From a ‘Stolen Election’ fan to Charlie Kirk at the Boise State University TPUSA event, regarding how to best deal with the problem of evil libtards not buying into false allegations of fraud.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout ... ame=iossmf

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I’m not sure, and I’m referencing the OP, how a grass roots movement to practice warm heartedness can happen when it’s a grass roots movement that elected the current crop of GOP politicians, to include this Congressman:



Dude was wearing that on the House floor. This is serious stuff.

- Doc

[honorentheos]

This is serious stuff.

- Doc

I can't get on board with taking the right wing meme machine more seriously than individuals choosing to enact good and consciously deciding to do things for the good of others as their main priority when it comes to Civic engagement.