Who speaks for the Democrats?

[Xenophon]

Chap, I don’t interpret the Democratic Party to have had at any point in recent history a ‘spokesperson’ who all party members fall in line behind. Democrats are more of a coalition of ideological factions that differs from the sort of singular ideological fealty exhibited by Republicans in their pledge to Trump.

The whole post was excellent but you really just nail it with your opening sentences here. This has been both a source of strength but also (especially recently) one of their biggest weaknesses.

You can see it playing out now in actual leftist circles (not the illusory ones Hound is fond of) around Gavin Newsom. At this very moment he has found an angle of approach that seems to be resonating with folks. Both his promises to combat redistricting in the ways available to him and generically his mock tweets both seem to be landing. But like clockwork, the internal party/wing dialogues have popped up about Newsom not passing this or that purity test to be the leader. I'm not saying Newsom should be the guy, but if Democrats as a group are going to find a way back into the game they're going to need to become comfortable with backing whoever is landing blows at the time even if they aren't 100% satisfied with their positions. Today it is Newsom, tomorrow it could be any countless folks from your list or elsewhere. The future of the party and likely a whole bunch of important things will depend on these distinct ideological groups actually coming to grips with their differences and pushing through to focus on the much greater list of similarities (from my perspective anyway).

The closest Democrats have had to a unifying body for some time was Obama and 1)he had a large number of detractors from the left and 2)he was a veritable unknown as a household name prior to entering the race.

[ajax18]

What you and other liberals on this board wrote back in 2017.

Notice was made of evidence of Russian efforts to influence the election. I do not think there is any way to know if that effort was the actual reason Trump won, it was American citizens who voted. American citizens are responsible for better or worse.

No, notice was made to President Obama that there was not sufficient evidence of Russian interference in the American election to the point that it would change the outcome. Upon receiving such notice, Obama said to go back and find more evidence, after which in unprecedented fashion he used his lame duck time as an opportunity to weaponize the justice department against his political opponents in an attempt to win by lawfare what they couldn't win in a free and fair election.

For three years all the Marxists on this board said that Trump was a Russian asset and that Putin was blackmailing him. They claimed that Trump trusted Putin more than partisan democrat American intelligence officers. (I certainly trust Putin more than the Democrats. That doesn't mean I like Putin. It just tells how toxic the Democrat party is to anyone who doesn't share their ideology) They spent an enormous amount of money and committed a lot of perjury, trying to overturn the 2016 election by any means they could to save US AID, keep the border open and unenforced and their welfare state well funded by imposing brutal crippling taxes upon the American worker.

The funniest part is to see Democrat policy come full circle for Democrats. Now that they control all of Maryland, the Democrats themselves have started cutting food stamp benefits. Does this surprise any of you? It was never about feeding people albeit with someone else's money. It was just a means to seize power in an election. Now that they own Maryland in perpetuity, they have no reason to keep paying for food stamps.

[canpakes]

Notice was made of evidence of Russian efforts to influence the election. I do not think there is any way to know if that effort was the actual reason Trump won, it was American citizens who voted. American citizens are responsible for better or worse.

No, notice was made to President Obama that there was not sufficient evidence of Russian interference in the American election to the point that it would change the outcome. Upon receiving such notice, Obama said to go back and find more evidence, after which in unprecedented fashion he used his lame duck time as an opportunity to weaponize the justice department against his political opponents in an attempt to win by lawfare what they couldn't win in a free and fair election.

I could also point out that Obama sent a pallet of pepperoni pizza to a cabal of ACORN activists to manufacture fake Russian interference evidence, but that would be as made-up as what you’ve written here, which is basically just Tulsi Gabbard’s confused word salad that spilled out of her mouth when she was trying desperately to change the public focus from the Epstein file brouhaha during the time it was causing Trump to have a meltdown. Of course, you’re free to dig into whatever you have that you believe backs her garbled narrative, if you’d like.

For three years all the Marxists on this board said that Trump was a Russian asset and that Putin was blackmailing him.

I don’t see any ‘Marxists’ on this board. Using the term to label folks who don’t uncritically swallow Trumpian BS makes as much sense as labeling the folks who do as ‘Hitlerists’. But - again - you’re free to explain what makes any of the folks you disagree with here ‘Marxists’. You should try; it will help folks like HoH to figure the same thing out if y’all put your minds to it.

They claimed that Trump trusted Putin more than partisan democrat American intelligence officers.

Yes, Trump publicly declared this while standing on a stage with Putin, several years ago and again just last Friday, when Putin stroked Trump’s fragile ego and played him like a fiddle by telling Trump that he actually won the 2020 election, after which Trump related that opinion to the press.

(I certainly trust Putin more than the Democrats. That doesn't mean I like Putin. It just tells how toxic the Democrat party is to anyone who doesn't share their ideology)

I’d go with the thought that it just ‘tells’ that you’re willing to sacrifice rational common sense in favor of preserving your political ego, but that’s just my personal opinion.

They spent an enormous amount of money and committed a lot of perjury, trying to overturn the 2016 election by any means they could to save US AID, keep the border open and unenforced and their welfare state well funded by imposing brutal crippling taxes upon the American worker.

So you voted for a guy who told you that lie, and who has now increased our debt by 10% since entering office, and who has accelerated inflation, while pulling crypto and self-enrichment scams off and protecting child traffickers and abusers, right under your (apparently approving) nose.

Seems like a bad bargain.

[Jersey Girl]

Have you seen the post-Putin press conference? Holy crap, Trump sounded like a beaten, owned and drunk derelict.

I think I did see all of it. It's pretty obvious that he was either physically exhausted at the time or whatever was said at the meeting rendered him unable to brag on himself or deliver good news. I think that alone would leave his ego entirely deflated and that itself would render him physically exhausted. Somewhere between the greeting and meeting he went down like a cheap dollar store balloon.

I've got a strong feeling (that's all I have) that during that private meeting he realized that he can't manipulate Putin. Putin is Honey Badger. Putin don't care. Putin don't give a crap and I think that Trump fully knows it now. He should have paid attention when Biden called Putin a thug. People like Putin play dirty games and they play them for keeps. They don't verbally reduce their political opponents or compare ratings numbers, they kill them dead.

I've said it before. I don't think that Trump admires these dictator types. I think he's scared shitless of them. From the moment Putin walked towards Trump, Trump displayed and behaved (in my eyes) in full deference to Putin. Trump applauded him, shook his hand, touched his body as a man might guide a female's body, gave him a cushy and heavily armored ride in US gov't property (The Beast) and I don't know what happened during the meeting but when Trump left and did the presser I swear I got the impression that Putin bitch slapped the hell out of him in that meeting.

These are only my impressions mind you. Observing behavior is all I really have to go on but I sincerely doubt that we're going to hear Trump rave and brag about how great the meeting went or make any declarations about Putin because Putin has shown himself to be unpredictable, impervious to Trump's well worn and obvious manipulation tactics, and I wouldn't be at all surprised that if Trump were to brag or issue solid predictions about the war at this point that Putin would bitch slap him publicly.

He already did it with his visit at the presser and he did it in full public view on US soil with the President at his side.

If Trump had any sense at all, he'd do his homework. Kinzinger recently described how and why Russia is losing the Ukraine war. The best thing Trump could do is supply Ukraine with the weaponry they need and let it flow like a river.

Rambling. Stopping. Shutting up. I don't post on Sundays.

A partial if not full retraction on my above proposed theory on Trump's deflated demeanor at the Putin presser.

Watching him today with Zelensky and European leaders. Think Trump is sick. Sniffing continuously. Common cold, allergies, something Covid-ish.

ETA: I still think Putin didn't give him an inch.

[canpakes]

Watching him today with Zelensky and European leaders. Think Trump is sick. Sniffing continuously. Common cold, allergies, something Covid-ish.

It’s probably chemical poisoning from overuse of cheap bronzer.

[huckelberry]

Notice was made of evidence of Russian efforts to influence the election. I do not think there is any way to know if that effort was the actual reason Trump won, it was American citizens who voted. American citizens are responsible for better or worse.

No, notice was made to President Obama that there was not sufficient evidence of Russian interference in the American election to the point that it would change the outcome. Upon receiving such notice, Obama said to go back and find more evidence, after which in unprecedented fashion he used his lame duck time as an opportunity to weaponize the justice department against his political opponents in an attempt to win by lawfare what they couldn't win in a free and fair election.

For three years all the Marxists on this board said that Trump was a Russian asset and that Putin was blackmailing him. They claimed that Trump trusted Putin more than partisan democrat American intelligence officers. (I certainly trust Putin more than the Democrats. That doesn't mean I like Putin. It just tells how toxic the Democrat party is to anyone who doesn't share their ideology) They spent an enormous amount of money and committed a lot of perjury, trying to overturn the 2016 election by any means they could to save US AID, keep the border open and unenforced and their welfare state well funded by imposing brutal crippling taxes upon the American worker.

The funniest part is to see Democrat policy come full circle for Democrats. Now that they control all of Maryland, the Democrats themselves have started cutting food stamp benefits. Does this surprise any of you? It was never about feeding people albeit with someone else's money. It was just a means to seize power in an election. Now that they own Maryland in perpetuity, they have no reason to keep paying for food stamps.

Ajax, your food stamp comments are a puzzle. Democrats have controlled states like the one I live in without cutting food stamps for many years. I Googled this Maryland business find report of food assistance decrease due to federal law change. That would not be Democrat manipulation.

Russian influence in the election was investigated. I do not see Obama continuing the investigation as lawfare though Trump cried persecution.

[Jersey Girl]

Watching him today with Zelensky and European leaders. Think Trump is sick. Sniffing continuously. Common cold, allergies, something Covid-ish.

It’s probably chemical poisoning from overuse of cheap bronzer.

Did anyone tell him not to snort it?

[canpakes]

It’s probably chemical poisoning from overuse of cheap bronzer.

Did anyone tell him not to snort it?

More like eating it. Pretty sure that he thought it was fry sauce or Velveeta.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

No, notice was made to President Obama that there was not sufficient evidence of Russian interference in the American election to the point that it would change the outcome. Upon receiving such notice, Obama said to go back and find more evidence, after which in unprecendented fashion he used his lame duck time as an opportunity to weaponize the justice department against his political opponents in an attempt to win by lawfare what they couldn't win in a free and fair election.

For three years all the Marxists on this board said that Trump was a Russian asset and that Putin was blackmailing him. They claimed that Trump trusted Putin more than partisan democrat American intelligence officers. (I certainly trust Putin more than the Democrats. That doesn't mean I like Putin. It just tells how toxic the Democrat party is to anyone who doesn't share their ideology) They spent an enormous amount of money and committed a lot of perjury, trying to overturn the 2016 election by any means they could to save US AID, keep the border open and unenforced and their welfare state well funded by imposing brutal crippling taxes upon the American worker.

The funniest part is to see Democrat policy come full circle for Democrats. Now that they control all of Maryland, the Democrats themselves have started cutting food stamp benefits. Does this surprise any of you? It was never about feeding people albeit with someone else's money. It was just a means to seize power in an election. Now that they own Maryland in perpetuity, they have no reason to keep paying for food stamps.

Ajax, your food stamp comments are a puzzle. Democrats have controlled states like the one I live in without cutting food stamps for many years. I Googled this Maryland business find report of food assistance decrease due to federal law change. That would not be Democrat manipulation.

Russian influence in the election was investigated. I do not see Obama continuing the investigation as lawfare though Trump cried persecution.

Once you understand that everything that comes out of a MAGA cultist’s mouth is a lie surrounded by made-up nonsense they pretend is real, AND THEN get themselves mad about it, you’ll no longer be puzzled by them.

- Doc

[Black Moclips]

Democrats are in big trouble if they believe Gavin Newsom can help them Let's see, corrupt? Check. Ineffective? Check. Anti-small business while raking in millions from big tech and unions? Check. Out of touch with most Californians? Check. Never met a whacky piece of liberal legislation he didn't like? Check. Panders to the unions and left fringe? Check. Soft on crime? Check. Thinks homelessness is a spending problem? Check. Believes in hamstringing responsible energy like nuclear, while the CA grid is obsolete and fails every summer? Check. Highest gas in the country? Check.

Yeah, the left will definitely go that direction.