War on America

[Doctor Steuss]

American citizens being dragged from their homes in the dead of night, having their American citizen children zip-tied after being torn from their parents, and tossed into vans for hours. Most in their underwear or pajamas. Their parents separated from them, and placed in handcuffs. No warrants. No probably cause documents.

Apparently for some (at least from the silence I've seen on social media and elsewhere), black and brown citizens appear to be close enough to immigrants to get the same collective shrug when it comes to abject cruelty and barbarism at the hands of federal goons.

This little light of mine...

[Whiskey]

(at least from the silence I've seen on social media and elsewhere)

What do you think has contributed to that?

My thought is that yawn, meh, another these are Nazis story with likely the same credibility as the last thousand these are Nazis stories. Wolf, wolf, wolf. Maybe we are at "holy crap this wolf is real" time, but it is still wolf. And if something bad happened, that is bad. If a bunch of wolf-crying cry-wolfers say something bad happened, ain't nobody give a damn.

File it under Jessie Smollet, defund the police and blah blah blah.

[Doctor Steuss]

(at least from the silence I've seen on social media and elsewhere)

What do you think has contributed to that?

My thought is that yawn, meh, another these are Nazis story with likely the same credibility as the last thousand these are Nazis stories. Wolf, wolf, wolf. Maybe we are at "holy crap this wolf is real" time, but it is still wolf. And if something bad happened, that is bad. If a bunch of wolf-crying cry-wolfers say something bad happened, ain't nobody give a damn.

File it under defund the police and blah blah blah.

I'm sure there's some burnout and general apathy, which contributes to people ignoring things like this. The need to maintain tribal identity likely contributes to that as well. Acknowledging that "our side" is doing abhorrent things can be difficult to separate from ourselves. Our brains can kind of default to "this thing was bad, and can be attributed to a given tribal identity, which is also my identity, so that means I am bad, which I'm not, so this thing didn't happen and/or wasn't actually bad."

I don't know about the credibility thing, since we have videos, pictures, and multiple witness statements. Then again, we do kind of exist in a post-reality kind of world. With this particular instance, I don't know that the distrust of legacy media can necessarily be the cause either, as it's been reported by a lot of small independent sources as well.

That said, I certainly find myself at times looking at things, or reading recent judicial rulings, or watching videos, and realizing that I'm not really feeling anything at all, when I know that I absolutely should be. So, it was certainly unfair of me to attribute the beliefs behind the apathy that I did.

[ceeboo]

(at least from the silence I've seen on social media and elsewhere)

What do you think has contributed to that?

My thought is that yawn, meh, another these are Nazis story with likely the same credibility as the last thousand these are Nazis stories. Wolf, wolf, wolf. Maybe we are at "holy crap this wolf is real" time, but it is still wolf. And if something bad happened, that is bad. If a bunch of wolf-crying cry-wolfers say something bad happened, ain't nobody give a damn.

File it under Jessie Smollet, defund the police and blah blah blah.

Yep.

[Whiskey]

What do you think has contributed to that?

My thought is that yawn, meh, another these are Nazis story with likely the same credibility as the last thousand these are Nazis stories. Wolf, wolf, wolf. Maybe we are at "holy crap this wolf is real" time, but it is still wolf. And if something bad happened, that is bad. If a bunch of wolf-crying cry-wolfers say something bad happened, ain't nobody give a damn.

File it under defund the police and blah blah blah.

I'm sure there's some burnout and general apathy, which contributes to people ignoring things like this. The need to maintain tribal identity likely contributes to that as well. Acknowledging that "our side" is doing abhorrent things can be difficult to separate from ourselves. Our brains can kind of default to "this thing was bad, and can be attributed to a given tribal identity, which is also my identity, so that means I am bad, which I'm not, so this thing didn't happen and/or wasn't actually bad."

I don't know about the credibility thing, since we have videos, pictures, and multiple witness statements. Then again, we do kind of exist in a post-reality kind of world. With this particular instance, I don't know that the distrust of legacy media can necessarily be the cause either, as it's been reported by a lot of small independent sources as well.

That said, I certainly find myself at times looking at things, or reading recent judicial rulings, or watching videos, and realizing that I'm not really feeling anything at all, when I know that I absolutely should be. So, it was certainly unfair of me to attribute the beliefs behind the apathy that I did.

I don't find it unfair. In fact, I think the opposite. I am curious about the elements of the apathy, including my own.

We’ve all learned to scroll past outrage the way we avoid eye contact with the panhandler at the intersection, not because we don’t care, but because caring feels pointless and dangerous. It’s easier to stay in the car and look straight ahead.

And when the noise gets too thick, that’s when the Jules line rings in my head: “Say what again!” . Its like a raw refusal to listen to one more sanctimonious sermon, one more performance of moral certainty, one more declaration of injustice and likely a crock of crap. So yep. burnout, apathy, and defensive detachment. The wolf might be real this time, but after a thousand false alarms, everyone’s too numb to care.

[Bret Ripley]

I'm sure there's some burnout and general apathy, which contributes to people ignoring things like this. The need to maintain tribal identity likely contributes to that as well. Acknowledging that "our side" is doing abhorrent things can be difficult to separate from ourselves. Our brains can kind of default to "this thing was bad, and can be attributed to a given tribal identity, which is also my identity, so that means I am bad, which I'm not, so this thing didn't happen and/or wasn't actually bad."

I don't know about the credibility thing, since we have videos, pictures, and multiple witness statements. Then again, we do kind of exist in a post-reality kind of world. With this particular instance, I don't know that the distrust of legacy media can necessarily be the cause either, as it's been reported by a lot of small independent sources as well.

That said, I certainly find myself at times looking at things, or reading recent judicial rulings, or watching videos, and realizing that I'm not really feeling anything at all, when I know that I absolutely should be. So, it was certainly unfair of me to attribute the beliefs behind the apathy that I did.

... after a thousand false alarms, everyone’s too numb to care.

I'm not sure, but this snippet from Hannah Arrendt's 'The Origins of Totalitarianism' may have some relevance here:

“In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and that nothing was true. ... Mass propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.”

[Whiskey]

... after a thousand false alarms, everyone’s too numb to care.

I'm not sure, but this snippet from Hannah Arrendt's 'The Origins of Totalitarianism' may have some relevance here:

“In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and that nothing was true. ... Mass propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.”

Add to that the tribalism aspect that Steuss pointed out. "Look at those other folks playing into Totalitarianism, glad our team is way way way more better. We would never be suckers like them."

[Bret Ripley]

I'm not sure, but this snippet from Hannah Arrendt's 'The Origins of Totalitarianism' may have some relevance here:

“In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and that nothing was true. ... Mass propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.”

Add to that the tribalism aspect that Steuss pointed out. "Look at those other folks playing into Totalitarianism, glad our team is way way way more better. We would never be suckers like them."

The described psychological effect is by no means solely attributable to totalitarian propaganda. Evaluating information responsibly is work, and increases to that workload contribute to apathy/burnout/cynicism or whatever else that pushes people to tune out or stop caring about justice, ethics, or other virtues they would otherwise believe themselves to embrace.

[Kishkumen]

I'm not sure, but this snippet from Hannah Arrendt's 'The Origins of Totalitarianism' may have some relevance here:

“In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and that nothing was true. ... Mass propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.”

It is amazing that the existence of such a book has not done more to prepare people for the latest wave of authoritarianism. The West was a bunch of sitting ducks. We see the board alive with people defending authoritarianism and telling us that they are not, but that it is the opponents of authoritarianism who are hoodwinked, wrong, and even subhuman.

[Whiskey]

We see the board alive with people defending authoritarianism and telling us that they are not, but that it is the opponents of authoritarianism who are hoodwinked, wrong, and even subhuman.

Who, for example? Subhumans on this board? Who are they?