Fear of the Left . . .

[Guest]

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[_Chap]

Caucasians who're clearly at fault for perpetuating an environment in which black women feel entitled to brain Mexican nonagenarians with bricks.

If their vote helped Trump to get in, well yes, they have encouraged the growth of anti-hispanic resentment, even hatred, to which black people are no more immune than whites. But I doubt that many whites like that subscribed.

Are you stoned?

Seriously.

Sorry - you are suggesting that the view that voting for Trump did something to boost anti-hispanic feeling is so bizarre that it can only be held by someone on mind-altering substances?

Or do you mean something else?

[Guest]

l

[_Chap]

... [you assert that] that millions of white American citizens have not just encouraged the growth of anti-Hispanic resentment, you raise the bar by suggesting that these millions of white American citizens encourage flat out hatred of Hispanic people.

Oh. So you don't think that Trump has done anything to encourage the growth of anti-Hispanic resentment since he has become President?

And you don't think that having voted for Trump carries any responsibility for putting him in a position to do that, given that he made his attitude quite plain throughout his presidential campaign?

Well, it's an opinion I suppose.

[Guest]

/

[_ajax18]

So, it's White people's fault, correct?

- Doc

There's no money in blaming nonwhite people Doc.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

One will note none of the rabid commissars on this board can't actually, ever, provide a solution to the problems of inequity (whatever that means in the moment), other then shaming whites, in particular white men for not gelding themselves before the many-faced god of "socialist libertarianism."

They forever pit everyone, in a hierarchy of oppression, against a hierarchy of victimization. The order of oppressed versus victim constantly shifts given the conversation since ambiguity is necessary to keep non-socialist libertarians on their heels.

Just remember. They're obsessed with power, and when people who believe in individual liberty, accountability, and a responsibility toward their fellow man by being law abiding citizens vote against their interests people like EA and Chap will be the ones holding that gelding knife.

Eta: ea & Chap thinking themselves clever just provided an object lesson on why the Right fears the Left. In this case, I think the Right is justifiably wary of the Left.

- Doc

[_Chap]

... My thoughts on what Trump has done (or what Trump has not done) have exactly and totally nothing to do with the irresponsible implications and negative labels that you have attached to millions of white American citizens that exercised their right to vote.

Maybe we could try to take this step by step? That way it will be clear where our views diverge, and why, and we might be able to understand one another even if we don't agree. So here are some propositions that you might or might not agree with:

A. The right to vote in a democracy comes with moral responsibilities. Thus one ought not to vote for a party or candidate without taking the time to learn about what policies they advocate and considering the likely impact of those policies on the country as a whole. Your fellow citizens have the right to expect that you will not use your vote without such due consideration, or simply to amuse yourself. (Of course the right to vote is not CONDITIONAL on the voter carrying out such civic responsibilities. However, one's continuing respect for a fellow-citizen might be so conditional.)

Are you with me there? OK, then we go on to:

B. Having cast an informed vote and put a party or a person in power, the citizen who voted for them cannot avoid sharing in responsibility for the consequences of the policies they voted for being put into practice. (If the citizen simply voted at random and in ignorance of the policies in question that criticism does not apply , though others do.)

How about that? Basically it's this: "Candidate X said clearly he would do Y. You voted for him and he was elected and proceeded to do Y. So you share responsibility for the consequences of candidate X doing Y."

Now we come to particulars:

C. Candidate Trump, from his very first announcement of his intention to run, foregrounded hispanic immigrants as a major and immediate threat to the personal security of US citizens ('murders, rapists ..."). He referred to this threat repeatedly in campaign rallies, and promised tough and coercive action to end the threat ("Build the WALL!" and so on). In office, he has continued the same rhetoric, and acted on it.

Basically the case, or not, would you say?

So finally we come to:

D. Having voted for Trump in full knowledge of his stated policies and attitudes, a voter can reasonably be said to share some responsibility for the consequences of his policies. And those consequences are certainly an increased tendency in US society to view all hispanic people as potential threats, and thus from time to time to motivate unstable individuals to act on those perceptions by attacking innocent people, purely on the ground that they are, or appear to be, hispanic. And it was not hard, listening to candidate Trump, to see that this kind of thing was likely to happen.

I'd be interested to know at which point in the above listing of propositions our views part company.

[Guest]

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[_Chap]

Understand this - No civil society can defend such acts of hideous violence, or deflect from such acts of hideous violence, or diminish the responsibility and accountability of the individual/individuals who commit such acts of hideous violence - and remain a civil society for long.

Yes of course. The woman who carried out that attack was as responsible as a probably mildly deranged person can be responsible.

But ...

do I understand you to say that if you voted for somebody who you saw as a matter of deliberate policy whipping up hatred and fear of hispanics in order to get elected, in a manner likely to empower and enrage unstable individuals like the woman who carried out this attack, you have nothing to reproach yourself for at all? You ought to feel no responsibility for what happened?

And you think that attitude on the part of voters is, in the long run, conducive to the health of civil society?