Sex Before Marriage

[_honorentheos]

So let's talk about ethics. In Bahrain it is morally wrong for a 24 year old to date an 18 year old, but in other countries like Germany and Croatia it is acceptable for a 21 year old to date a 15 year old. Let's forget about the sex, and talk about dating relationships. For you how would you define an acceptable dating relationship? Does age matter? Would it matter if a 50 year old dates a 20 year old? Or do we simply go by gut feelings? When is someone mature enough? Does maturity depend on the person or on the age?

DT,

Let's start with the most basic, foundational distinction that needs to be made and is reflected in your sentence, "In Bahrain it is morally wrong for a 24 year old to date an 18 year old, but in other countries like Germany and Croatia it is acceptable for a 21 year old to date a 15 year old."

When you state that it's "morally wrong" for a 24 year old to date an 18 year old in Bahrain, what exactly do you mean by morally wrong? Setting aside whether this is factual or not, do you mean that it's illegal and a person could face jail time? That it's frowned upon in Bahraini culture but not codified into law? What does the phrase "morally wrong" mean?

[_subgenius]

1) Don't take advantage of someone else's vulnerability to gratify your own sexual needs, and

why not? I mean is this just a blanket condemnation against "taking advantage"? or is it only implying that taking advantage is not appropriate when associated with sex?
And does not sexual activity demand and require vulnerability?

2) If you were to become the father of a 16 year old and still held the view that 22 years olds who pursue 16 year olds is something you'd be cool with, then you should have sought professional help before then.

100 years ago this would not require professional help, and 200 years ago seeking a 22 year old for your 16 year old would have been a parent's responsibility. I see no reason to assume professional help would be necessary, either compulsory or voluntarily - why do you think it necessary?

[_subgenius]

So let's talk about ethics. In Bahrain it is morally wrong for a 24 year old to date an 18 year old, but in other countries like Germany and Croatia it is acceptable for a 21 year old to date a 15 year old. Let's forget about the sex, and talk about dating relationships. For you how would you define an acceptable dating relationship? Does age matter? Would it matter if a 50 year old dates a 20 year old? Or do we simply go by gut feelings? When is someone mature enough? Does maturity depend on the person or on the age?

I think you are setting up a fallacy here, a sort of loaded question. Your introductory statement introduces "morality" as being subjective, based solely on the premise that since this country uses this age and that country uses that age. You have not established that these 2 countries may also associate another quality with "age" - meaning that you are assuming age is an objective definition which is being applied subjectively by 2 different countries.
The issue, is that when age is used as an objective milestone it assumes that the relevant culture collectively meets that milestone...so a child raised in the US is assumed to be an adult, physically and mentally, when reaching the age of 18. However, it is certainly reasonable that physical and mental "adulthood" may be reached at a variety of other ages, both in the US and other nations....but in the US, the assumption is that everyone should have matured at no later than 18.
So, while "maturity" does not depend on age it is certainly measured in society by age.
But I think the larger point is that while physical maturity with regards to sexual activity is quite objective and arguably is the best measure for consent, we have somehow, and for some yet to be revealed reason, attached "mental" maturity to sexual activity. Perhaps someone here can focus on this rather arbitrary and subjective measure with regards to this topic.

[Guest]

When you state that it's "morally wrong" for a 24 year old to date an 18 year old in Bahrain, what exactly do you mean by morally wrong? Setting aside whether this is factual or not, do you mean that it's illegal and a person could face jail time? That it's frowned upon in Bahraini culture but not codified into law? What does the phrase "morally wrong" mean?

The law in Bahrain is, "The age of consent in Bahrain is 21 regardless of gender or sexual orientation.. The penalty of imprisonment exceeding 10 years is the sentence for anyone who has sex with a woman who is over sixteen years but less than twenty one years, with consent"

[_DoubtingThomas]

I'm sure it is difficult to try to maintain an active LDS stance when your family believes and you don't, but if you married your LDS girlfriend, then she is in a difficult position also. I wish the two of you well with your relationship. I would definitely consider not having kids until you have a little more figured out.

Thank you for your words Lemmie. Yes, I do need to think about stuff. Please don't ask here because I won't share publicly, I already shared too much about my personal life here in the Spirit Paradise section.

But thanks again Lemmie

[_honorentheos]

When you state that it's "morally wrong" for a 24 year old to date an 18 year old in Bahrain, what exactly do you mean by morally wrong? Setting aside whether this is factual or not, do you mean that it's illegal and a person could face jail time? That it's frowned upon in Bahraini culture but not codified into law? What does the phrase "morally wrong" mean?

The law in Bahrain is, "The age of consent in Bahrain is 21 regardless of gender or sexual orientation.. The penalty of imprisonment exceeding 10 years is the sentence for anyone who has sex with a woman who is over sixteen years but less than twenty one years, with consent"

Thanks for answering, DT. So do you believe that legal and ethical are synonymous? By that I mean in your personal interpretation of the concepts do you see morality, legality, and ethics as essentially meaning the same thing?

[_DoubtingThomas]

Thanks for answering, DoubtingThomas. So do you believe that legal and ethical are synonymous? By that I mean in your personal interpretation of the concepts do you see morality, legality, and ethics as essentially meaning the same thing?

No, but the law does influence the culture. I assume most people in Bahrain think it is wrong for a 24 year old to date an 18 year old.

[_honorentheos]

1) Don't take advantage of someone else's vulnerability to gratify your own sexual needs, and

why not? I mean is this just a blanket condemnation against "taking advantage"? or is it only implying that taking advantage is not appropriate when associated with sex?

It's being used in the context of a thread titled, "Sex Before Marriage". Whatever you care to make of the comment, subby, is up to you.

And does not sexual activity demand and require vulnerability?

Ummm, no. No, it doesn't. And that's creepy, too.

2) If you were to become the father of a 16 year old and still held the view that 22 years olds who pursue 16 year olds is something you'd be cool with, then you should have sought professional help before then.

100 years ago this would not require professional help, and 200 years ago seeking a 22 year old for your 16 year old would have been a parent's responsibility. I see no reason to assume professional help would be necessary, either compulsory or voluntarily - why do you think it necessary?

Why do I suggest that an adult father of a 16 year old likely has unresolved issues they ought to have gotten resolved were they to view 22 year olds pursing their daughter as perfectly fine? Bad curry?

[_honorentheos]

Thanks for answering, DoubtingThomas. So do you believe that legal and ethical are synonymous? By that I mean in your personal interpretation of the concepts do you see morality, legality, and ethics as essentially meaning the same thing?

No, but the law does influence the culture. I assume most people in Bahrain think it is wrong for a 24 year old to date an 18 year old.

Ok, but if you don't view them as synonymous, what do you see as the difference between each?

[_DoubtingThomas]

Ok, but if you don't view them as synonymous, what do you see as the difference between each?

Good question. I have to go for now, but will think about it.