Did this really just happen?

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_EAllusion
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _EAllusion »

honorentheos wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:36 am
Sure. That's my problem. You are pretty broken if this is how you think. Branding is branding, and extending what Gaetz described beyond its already horrific but explicit statement to ensure it carries even heavier historical overtones is branding. Or propoganda. Whatever you want to call it I guess. Just don't call it the facts.
He could not have more obviously called for death squads aside from saying, "Yay death squads" and was widely interpreted that way. If you want to argue that maybe he wasn't calling for the "and kill them part" you're carrying a lot of water there. If you want to object to describing that as a death squad, I'm sorry, but words have meanings. He called for the United States to hunt down Antifa like it has Isis. That is literally what a death squad is. I'm sorry that you don't like the term because it associated with political terror in authoritarian countries, but if the United States was doing that - guess what? - we'd be engaging in political terror in an authoritarian country. I'm sorry if you don't like the "overtones" of describing the United States accurately when it is unleashing a wave of extrajudicial killings of its citizens based on their affiliations with an amorphous political label, but then it would seem the problem is that you're too much of a homer for your country to accurately describe its state.

I suspect the problem is more that you are so desperate to find some form of middle-ground in any situation because that makes you unreasonably think you are being reasonable that you routinely have distorted interpretations. You're not alone in this fault, and you share the misplaced confidence that people with it tend to have when expressing it. My guess is you have a heuristic that tells you that if both sides you think of as the extremes think you're wrong, then you must be doing something right.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

This right here from the article Cam linked to:
This dreamworld, where he would rule as the "I alone can fix it" president has become, not the 1950s idyll of his imagination, but a hellscape governed by a man frozen in his childhood and out of step with the times. The world is spiraling out of control and its most powerful man is abjectly unprepared and unqualified.
Amen.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Cam that opinion piece was excellent. Just excellent. Masterfully written.
_Some Schmo
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Some Schmo »

That was a good article, although I'll believe there are cracks in his base when I see him thrown out of office by his GOP senators.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

You know I just want to put something here that builds on a previous exchange on a different thread. Someone was talking about how religious believers are in the tank for Trump and I said that believer's aren't paying attention to the Bible because it clearly states that "God is not the author of confusion" and Trump has done nothing but create confusion and chaos in this world. Ajax was on that thread so I want to build on that thought a bit here. Maybe Ajax will see this...maybe it'll make sense to him.

I think most of us have heard variations of the story that preachers tell where a man is in danger of flood waters and a police car comes by with a bullhorn offering him a ride out and the man declines saying, "The Lord will provide". A rescue boat comes by to rescue him and he declines the ride saying, "The Lord will provide". The flood waters rise...he climbs up on to the roof of the house. When a helicopter comes to rescue him he declines the lift saying, "The Lord will provide". The man drowns in the flood. When he gets to Heaven he asks the Lord "Why didn't you provide for me?" and the Lord says, "I provided you with a car, a boat, and helicopter. What else did you want?"

When I look through a believing lens at how Trump has handled the past 6 months or so, I picture God trying to get a message through to believers. Sort of like this...

There's a pandemic. Look at how he handled it. Did he facilitate healing?

Do you see who he is yet?

There is civil unrest. Look at how he is handling it. Is he encouraging peace or violence?

Do you see who he is yet?

There's a photo of this man holding my Word standing in front of my house. Is he following my Word or violating it?

Do you see who he is yet?

Well, I am no preacher that is for sure. But still...you have to be willfully blind not to see what is happening in front of our very eyes and the self interest, arrogance, ignorance, and the greed that is driving it.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Listening to NYPD police scanner. NYC is turning to crap. 1,000 arrests just tonight.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Additional. The police scanner is being streamed by a retired NYPD cop. If anyone is interested in a link, PM me. The city is on fire. Groups of 200-300 people all over the city. (One example, crowd of upwards of 300 people moving towards the Barclays event center).The NYC police force is the largest police force in the world with 40K members. (I do think he said once that South Korea might have the second largest police force?) He's said that although the NYPD is the largest most well trained and equipped police force in the world, they can't handle what's going on alone and the Nat'l Guard will need to be brought in. The transmissions/calls are continuous. Police commissioner is out there in the streets and transmitting. It's basically all hands on deck with a curfew in effect.

100 people breaking into one store. 400 breaking into another store. On and on it goes. It doesn't stop. It doesn't damned stop.

I feel pretty sick right now. Not only for the overwhelming destruction and violence, but wondering what happens in the aftermath regarding the virus. This is just. so. screwed. up.
_honorentheos
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _honorentheos »

EAllusion wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:58 am
I suspect the problem is more that you are so desperate to find some form of middle-ground in any situation because that makes you unreasonably think you are being reasonable that you routinely have distorted interpretations. You're not alone in this fault, and you share the misplaced confidence that people with it tend to have when expressing it. My guess is you have a heuristic that tells you that if both sides you think of as the extremes think you're wrong, then you must be doing something right.
My heuristic is a BS test. Did what you say match the facts of what I read for myself? Nope? Why not? If you can explain it and show I'm missing something, cool. It is often the case. If you assert a plausible but distorted reading, we have a problem. In your case, when it happens it seems based on a worldview that is anti-establishment, anti-authority, and a bit Madison liberal elite but looked at down the nose of an aloof libertarian who knows better. So, death squads. And that's doing harm to the ability to convey the seriousness of what Gaetz said due to it extending into hyperbole.
_EAllusion
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _EAllusion »

American military tautologically can't do death squads because that would imply America is a despotic country like we normally associate with the term, and America cannot be thought of as that. So we'll have to come up with a different label for organized state forces hunting down and murdering members due to their affiliation with a disfavored political group. Murder squads? Nah. How about anti-terrorism special forces?
_EAllusion
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _EAllusion »

https://7news.com.au/news/north-america ... -c-1074160

This story might send up the Aussieguy signal. An Australian reporter was assaulted by police while covering the protests. While this case is mild compared to some of the other incidents of police attacking media members, it certainly appears like a deliberate assault. The prime minister of Australia is calling for an investigation.
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