Sailgirl posts from KA's "Liars" thread

[_sailgirl7]

You are awesome Bond- no wonder Liz has you for a boy toy! ;)

I do know how to pick 'em! ;)

Come up to the Goddess suite, and I'll share. You've had a rough day! LOL

I have to break in Nehor, anyway....A goddess' work is never done!

It might be a while 'till I reach Goddess status- Think you could send him down? :)

[_Yoda]

You are awesome Bond- no wonder Liz has you for a boy toy! ;)

I do know how to pick 'em! ;)

Come up to the Goddess suite, and I'll share. You've had a rough day! LOL

I have to break in Nehor, anyway....A goddess' work is never done!

It might be a while 'till I reach Goddess status- Think you could send him down? :)

Oh, you're on a personal invite, darling. Come up to the suite! We're in for a wild party at Shady Acres tonight!

;)

[_Bond...James Bond]

Sorry if I got riled up earlier....it's just quite irritating to me that a dude would suggest his wife who ways 120 lbs needs to lose weight. Damn. I could understand if you were 300 lbs and he was worried about your health, but 120 is petite.

[_Ray A]

sailgirl,

I'm not battling for anyone's "soul" here, including yours. You have your God-given agency, and as I have said, you are free to choose the course of your life. I think, unashamedly, one thing I have in common with God is a respect of agency. "Thou mayest choose for thyself" are words I consider divine. You have a brain, feelings, and agency. And sometimes our choices are "learning curves".

Exmos are a funny breed, and I include myself, initially, because I went through a period of "expressing myself". If something was forbidden by the Church, I did it, so I could feel "free". We tend to go to extremes, from one end of the spectrum to another extreme end. You may or may not have noticed how many ex-Mormons pride themselves in "imbibing", or drinking coffee, or doing things they never did as Mormons. This is a statement of "liberation". It's quite odd to those who have never been LDS. One thing I would emphasise, many people, many thousands of people, even millions, still deeply love and respect the "Mormon lifestyle", and to them it's not "odd", but a way of life. All I am hoping is that you will never join the mockers, but will choose your path without turning on those who still believe, and who hold in high esteem the things you once did. This is called respect, and retaining an appreciation for why they still believe, as you once did. You do not need to justify yourself. And this is the problem with so many exmos - the need for justification through demeaning not only what they once believed, but the very people they once loved.

Your husband may express himself in "Mormon ways", such as comments about wearing garments. But beyond this, do you know if he really loves you? If garments and ritual are more important to him, or just having "a woman" to accompany him in the CK, and you happen to be that woman, then I can understand your angst. You want to know if you are loved for who you are, not what you believe or worship, and I can understand that. But think too that your husband may really, truly love you, and this is what you have to determine. I, too, would feel "used" if I was only a "means" to some higher glory. I believe that Joseph truly loved Emma, beyond all the hype, and I will go out on a limb and say she may be the only one he truly loved. I think you should read Emma's last words before she died, and it can be found in Mormon Enigma. Please don't feel, like so many exmos do, that "this" is all "false". There are many complex and complicated motivations behind the founding of Mormonism, and we cannot reduce those to black and white statements. Joseph was not just a backwoods simpleton, he was the instrument in founding a new world religion, and he was an exceedingly complex person, and certainly not without the common feelings we all have.

I don't share, nor join, the "celebration" of "freedom" here, because frankly I think it's immature, and premature. Like kids licking ice cream for the first time. I drink alcohol, in moderation, but I don't need to join threads celebrating it as some kind of "expression" of "freedom". In a sense, it's sad that exmos have to do this, but it's a reflection of the oppression they have felt. Ironically, most of the rest of the world who have lived with this for generations - think it's a CURSE!! Yet exmos only now seem to be discovering their first drinks, while the rest of the world is battling about how to get RID of this curse that leads to so much violence and abuse!! It's so, so ironic, and this is what I've been "on about". This is what I mean about discerning "good and evil". We do not need more drunks, and people "celebrating" their "newfound freedom" in what most others now think a curse, is quite ironic. I'm only relating this as an example, and not in any way suggesting that this covers all the points I wish to make. I left the Church 20 years ago, and the reason I speak up for it so much is because I've been, truly and thoroughly, on both sides. And while I can understand your angst, and hurt, do not for one minute think that you will find "liberation" in the alternatives. The saddest people I know, the most deeply unhappy I know, are those "in the world". And how do they overcome this - through alcohol, denial, and believing that there is a better way. They are happy, but only temporarily, and they can't see beyond their noses. The best way to love, and express your love, is within the constraints of what is revealed in the Book of Mormon. "Wickedness never was happiness."

And it never will be.

However: "Thou mayest choose for thyself."

[_Ray A]

I would like to say one last thing to you, sailgirl. My ex-wife became an atheist, and no longer believed in Mormonism. She became "liberated". She met, and married another man, and , perhaps, she felt in retrospect, that I was "too Mormon", "too fake". I don't know. I could be wrong. Maybe I was a bad husband, and maybe we married for the wrong reasons - the Church. I don't know. I accept blame partly because I seem to have no choice. My motives and feelings have all been figured out by others. So what can I do? All I can do is say that I believe that God knows my heart - 100% - and that does not in the least scare me. My ex-wife lived in denial of God and Mormonism for years, but when she learned she had only months to live - she turned back to God, and the Church. There was no more time left. Her probation on earth was over. And the last "statement" she made, in effect, was - "I still believe in Mormonism, and in God". Yeah, It's "fun" on the journey, but when we come to the end of the journey, we wonder what this mortal existence is all about. And it's not just about our selfish motives. I have one last memory of my ex-wife, for which I am extremly proud of her - the message she left for her children was: I believe in Mormonism. I believe in God. And she sealed that testimony by choosing to be buried in a Mormon chapel, with a Mormon funeral.

When her time was up, her number called, I think she realised that the only things that really mattered in her life were things like her Mormon experience. Her lover meant nothing. Her "freedom" meant nothing. In the end, she turned back to her God, and her religion. And for that alone, and this is a woman I once called "the most hard-hearted" woman I knew, I respected her.

For me, her final testimony was - "it's true".

[_Bond...James Bond]

Alright I'm still catching up on this thread.....so:

I don't want to give up my hopes and dreams, I don't want to be a victim of myself. But I am often reminded of my shortcomings and that makes me feel lost.

Don't give up on your dreams.....and kick your shortcomings in the ass. Screw that. You can do whatever you want. (Well you can't rob banks or murder people......but you can get educated or whatever you want to do on that end).

I want to take the goodness from the church and be happy with that. But I cannot reconcile certain things and therefore I can't be the "molly" Mormon that my family wants me to be. So in that sense I always feel like a failure and a let down.

Here's something I think about "molly"s.....they're overated. Screw them. If you want to get educated at some point in your life then go for it.

I know I can't give up my dreams of getting an education and helping others, just because I fail to make the grade as a Mormon. Thanks for your encouragement and kindness. You guys are all great!

Good for you....get educated and tell anyone who has a problem with it to shove it.

[_sailgirl7]

sailgirl,

I'm not battling for anyone's "soul" here, including yours. You have your God-given agency, and as I have said, you are free to choose the course of your life. I think, unashamedly, one thing I have in common with God is a respect of agency. "Thou mayest choose for thyself" are words I consider divine. You have a brain, feelings, and agency. And sometimes our choices are "learning curves".

Exmos are a funny breed, and I include myself, initially, because I went through a period of "expressing myself". If something was forbidden by the Church, I did it, so I could feel "free". We tend to go to extremes, from one end of the spectrum to another extreme end. You may or may not have noticed how many ex-Mormons pride themselves in "imbibing", or drinking coffee, or doing things they never did as Mormons. This is a statement of "liberation". It's quite odd to those who have never been LDS. One thing I would emphasise, many people, many thousands of people, even millions, still deeply love and respect the "Mormon lifestyle", and to them it's not "odd", but a way of life. All I am hoping is that you will never join the mockers, but will choose your path without turning on those who still believe, and who hold in high esteem the things you once did. This is called respect, and retaining an appreciation for why they still believe, as you once did. You do not need to justify yourself. And this is the problem with so many exmos - the need for justification through demeaning not only what they once believed, but the very people they once loved.

Your husband may express himself in "Mormon ways", such as comments about wearing garments. But beyond this, do you know if he really loves you? If garments and ritual are more important to him, or just having "a woman" to accompany him in the CK, and you happen to be that woman, then I can understand your angst. You want to know if you are loved for who you are, not what you believe or worship, and I can understand that. But think too that your husband may really, truly love you, and this is what you have to determine. I, too, would feel "used" if I was only a "means" to some higher glory. I believe that Joseph truly loved Emma, beyond all the hype, and I will go out on a limb and say she may be the only one he truly loved. I think you should read Emma's last words before she died, and it can be found in Mormon Enigma. Please don't feel, like so many exmos do, that "this" is all "false". There are many complex and complicated motivations behind the founding of Mormonism, and we cannot reduce those to black and white statements. Joseph was not just a backwoods simpleton, he was the instrument in founding a new world religion, and he was an exceedingly complex person, and certainly not without the common feelings we all have.

I don't share, nor join, the "celebration" of "freedom" here, because frankly I think it's immature, and premature. Like kids licking ice cream for the first time. I drink alcohol, in moderation, but I don't need to join threads celebrating it as some kind of "expression" of "freedom". In a sense, it's sad that exmos have to do this, but it's a reflection of the oppression they have felt. Ironically, most of the rest of the world who have lived with this for generations - think it's a CURSE!! Yet exmos only now seem to be discovering their first drinks, while the rest of the world is battling about how to get RID of this curse that leads to so much violence and abuse!! It's so, so ironic, and this is what I've been "on about". This is what I mean about discerning "good and evil". We do not need more drunks, and people "celebrating" their "newfound freedom" in what most others now think a curse, is quite ironic. I'm only relating this as an example, and not in any way suggesting that this covers all the points I wish to make. I left the Church 20 years ago, and the reason I speak up for it so much is because I've been, truly and thoroughly, on both sides. And while I can understand your angst, and hurt, do not for one minute think that you will find "liberation" in the alternatives. The saddest people I know, the most deeply unhappy I know, are those "in the world". And how do they overcome this - through alcohol, denial, and believing that there is a better way. They are happy, but only temporarily, and they can't see beyond their noses. The best way to love, and express your love, is within the constraints of what is revealed in the Book of Mormon. "Wickedness never was happiness."

And it never will be.

However: "Thou mayest choose for thyself."

Ray,

Thank you so much for your response and your kind words of wisdom. Believe me when I say to you - I have NO desire nor have I ever had a desire for alcohol. I have seen the effects of it in a limited way- some of my friends went down that path. I was always the designated driver. But inevitably I ended up being the clean-up crew and the therapist as well. After throwing up- I would watch my friends get into some deep depressive states. I always questioned the point of drinking. To me it makes no sense. If I want to have a good time- I don't want to throw up afterwards and not even remember anything. No thank you- that's not for me. Also, my husband's father is an alcoholic- so I've heard all the horror stories. The most important thing in my life is my children- I have no desire to ever screw that up. I have NO desire to smoke- hate it, gives me a headache- No desire for coffee- I think it stinks-NO desire for drugs- I rarely take tylenol and had all my children all natural with no meds. I have NO desire to cheat on my husband- really what's the point? I have NO desire to gamble- what an utter waste of a life. Like I said before- I don't even watch nor want to watch rated "R" movies. I have NO desire to be "worldy" I am frugal in my spending and try to teach my children the value of hard-work and thrift. So none of these things are a "problem" for me- because even without my religion- it is not my personality to want those things. I don't want to feel "liberated" from Mormonism. It is a part of my heritage and I can't reject myself in that way. I want to be judged for the content of my character, for my talents, for my achievements, and not for my gender and most certainly not for my adherence or lack of to one particular dogma. I hope that's not asking for too much.

I believe my husband loves me. I love him. I continue to work towards something better. In all my learning, I want constructive progress, not destruction. If my path leads to destroying the things I hold most dear- then I had better do a fast reality check and turn around. I never want to destroy things. I don't want to destroy someone's faith or beliefs. I don't want to belittle anyone for being different. Am I perfect? Heck no, I have a long, long way to even begin that. But I do know that I am learning and I am growing. How will I know when I'm a success? When my children are full grown independant fully functioning members of society, and when I will be able to do my hearts desire and reach out and help the down trodden people in the world. Perhaps then, I will feel the purpose of my life is fulfilled. Life is short. I want to cherish every moment.

Thanks again for your kindness and your words. I will take everything to heart. I'm so sorry about the situation with your wife. I certainly don't want to ever find myself regretting the way I choose to live my life.

Sailgirl7

[_Ray A]

Ray,

Thank you so much for your response and your kind words of wisdom. Believe me when I say to you - I have NO desire nor have I ever had a desire for alcohol. I have seen the effects of it in a limited way- some of my friends went down that path. I was always the designated driver. But inevitably I ended up being the clean-up crew and the therapist as well. After throwing up- I would watch my friends get into some deep depressive states. I always questioned the point of drinking. To me it makes no sense. If I want to have a good time- I don't want to throw up afterwards and not even remember anything. No thank you- that's not for me. Also, my husband's father is an alcoholic- so I've heard all the horror stories. The most important thing in my life is my children- I have no desire to ever screw that up. I have NO desire to smoke- hate it, gives me a headache- No desire for coffee- I think it stinks-NO desire for drugs- I rarely take tylenol and had all my children all natural with no meds. I have NO desire to cheat on my husband- really what's the point? I have NO desire to gamble- what an utter waste of a life. Like I said before- I don't even watch nor want to watch rated "R" movies. I have NO desire to be "worldy" I am frugal in my spending and try to teach my children the value of hard-work and thrift. So none of these things are a "problem" for me- because even without my religion- it is not my personality to want those things. I don't want to feel "liberated" from Mormonism. It is a part of my heritage and I can't reject myself in that way. I want to be judged for the content of my character, for my talents, for my achievements, and not for my gender and most certainly not for my adherence or lack of to one particular dogma. I hope that's not asking for too much.

I believe my husband loves me. I love him. I continue to work towards something better. In all my learning, I want constructive progress, not destruction. If my path leads to destroying the things I hold most dear- then I had better do a fast reality check and turn around. I never want to destroy things. I don't want to destroy someone's faith or beliefs. I don't want to belittle anyone for being different. Am I perfect? Heck no, I have a long, long way to even begin that. But I do know that I am learning and I am growing. How will I know when I'm a success? When my children are full grown independant fully functioning members of society, and when I will be able to do my hearts desire and reach out and help the down trodden people in the world. Perhaps then, I will feel the purpose of my life is fulfilled. Life is short. I want to cherish every moment.

Thanks again for your kindness and your words. I will take everything to heart. I'm so sorry about the situation with your wife. I certainly don't want to ever find myself regretting the way I choose to live my life.

Sailgirl7

You are a very sensible person. Don't lose it, even if you lose your belief.

[_sailgirl7]

Bond

Don't give up on your dreams.....and kick your shortcomings in the ass. Screw that. You can do whatever you want. (Well you can't rob banks or murder people......but you can get educated or whatever you want to do on that end).

Here's something I think about "molly"s.....they're overated. Screw them. If you want to get educated at some point in your life then go for it.

Good for you....get educated and tell anyone who has a problem with it to shove it.

Bond,

Thanks again for all your encouragement- you have a very um...direct way of saying things- makes me smile! :)

[_Bond...James Bond]

Thanks again for all your encouragement- you have a very um...direct way of saying things- makes me smile! :)

I'm glad it makes someone smile.....it makes me single. ;P