Obama finally resolves birth cert issue of his own making

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_Obiwan
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Re: Obama finally resolves birth cert issue of his own making

Post by _Obiwan »

Baker wrote:I think all you've demonstrated that you are narrow-minded and hold extremist views not shared with rationally-thinking individuals.


Actually it is YOU who have demonstrated such.... Calling people bigots when bigotry has nothing at all to do with their views, and I've clearly demonstrated why. You are not "rational thinking", you think based on emotion. You pre-judge, rather than judge on the full evidence and facts.

Oh, and your Jesus builds shopping malls.


Again, another example of your ignorant pre-judging baseless of the actual facts. Every issue you show yourself as the bigot and the liar.
The Church is made up of two sides, like basically ALL religions are. They have a non-profit religious side, and then they have a for-profit business side. The two sides are separate of each other.

It is the Churches "business interests" that builds shopping malls (if that's what it takes to help keep downtown Salt-Lake "up-scale" and quality, rather than falling into the pit of squaller, and becoming a rundown poor district). You are so clueless..... It's in the Churches best interests to help the community it's in remain a quality place to be and go. Further, Church funds were not used for the project, it's for-profit funds were. In other words, Tithing and other charitable contributions were not used. Such funds are only used for Church spiritual related needs.
_Baker
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Re: Obama finally resolves birth cert issue of his own making

Post by _Baker »

Obiwan wrote:
Baker wrote:I think all you've demonstrated that you are narrow-minded and hold extremist views not shared with rationally-thinking individuals.


Actually it is YOU who have demonstrated such.... Calling people bigots when bigotry has nothing at all to do with their views, and I've clearly demonstrated why. You are not "rational thinking", you think based on emotion. You pre-judge, rather than judge on the full evidence and facts.

Oh, and your Jesus builds shopping malls.


Again, another example of your ignorant pre-judging baseless of the actual facts. Every issue you show yourself as the bigot and the liar.
The Church is made up of two sides, like basically ALL religions are. They have a non-profit religious side, and then they have a for-profit business side. The two sides are separate of each other.

It is the Churches "business interests" that builds shopping malls (if that's what it takes to help keep downtown Salt-Lake "up-scale" and quality, rather than falling into the pit of squaller, and becoming a rundown poor district). You are so clueless..... It's in the Churches best interests to help the community it's in remain a quality place to be and go. Further, Church funds were not used for the project, it's for-profit funds were. In other words, Tithing and other charitable contributions were not used. Such funds are only used for Church spiritual related needs.


Jesus is not two-sided; your Jesus builds shopping malls.

The argument that you are advancing against Obama's natural-born claim has never historically been successful. He is the American-born child of an American. One such has never been deemed ineligible to run for presidential office. That is why the crazy birthers went after the place of birth issue - it seemed to have more legs. It was colossally stupid.
"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. ... Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I." - Joseph Smith, 1844
_Bond James Bond
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Re: Obama finally resolves birth cert issue of his own making

Post by _Bond James Bond »

Your book by Jonah Goldberg is a joke hit piece of the type currently being produced for the culture warrior types to show how un-American the American Left is. The book argues that during WWI Wilson used the government to regulate so much of the US economy and of course continues on to Roosevelt and Clinton and every other Democrat and that those are trademarks of fascism. Leaving aside that [as shown below] fascism is a right wing endeavor and socialism is a left wing endeavor, what Goldberg fails to do is to show that this government intrusion into American life is a bipartisan issue, that Republicans have been just as willing to use the same government apparatus to their own ends. One sided and too far reaching to be good historical writing. Political punditry in the manner of anything written by Ann Coulter and the like.

Obiwan wrote:This is the actual spectrum of Political Science 101:

Left: Facism/Communism/Socialism -------------Center---------------Freedom/Anarchy : Right.

Facism is the extreme result of LEFTIST ideology, not ideology of the Right.
The extreme of Right ideology is Anarchy, not Facism. Read the book "Liberal Facism" and get introduced to a primer on what the actual history and ideology's are and how liberalism has revised said history.


I won't respond to your whole post, no time or interest, but on this point you're simply wrong. Classical political spectrums are:

Left: Socialism/Communism-------Liberalism--------------Centrist------------Conservative-----Fascism:Right

Or in basic economic terms:

Left: Socialism-----------Capitalism-----------Fascism :Right

And look like this in terms of Freedom:

Left: Least------less----------most-------------less-------least Right

If you have any other questions please direct them to the local community college. I'm sure a poly sci, history, or economics teacher will be just as wrong as me.
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
_Obiwan
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Re: Obama finally resolves birth cert issue of his own making

Post by _Obiwan »

Baker wrote:P.S. - Chester Arthur's father was not an American citizen at the time of his birth.


Buzzz...... WRONG...... That is factually true, however not the "whole truth".... Chester Arthur was not "elected" President, he succeeded the Presidency having been V.P. when President James Garfeld after serving only 200 days was killed by Assassin Charles J. Guiteau.

Article 2 section1 and the 20th & 25th Amendments essentially allows for this. Thus they were well within the constitution for Arthur to become President. Succession of the Presidency can fall to MANY different kinds of people who don't fit the "initial" requirement of being President.

There is wisdom in basically every aspect of the Constitution. Chester Arthur is a reasonable exception to the rule and within the rules. Obama however is completely against the rule. He outright does not qualify. He didn't succeed anyone or anything else. He outright and formost became President, and that is expressly prohibited by the Constitution.

Further, even if there are "other" exceptions, that doesn't make it acceptable or constitutional. Should rules be thrown out simply because some people have broken them???

Sorry, but you can't win this.....
_Obiwan
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Re: Obama finally resolves birth cert issue of his own making

Post by _Obiwan »

Baker wrote:Jesus is not two-sided; your Jesus builds shopping malls.


A "Church" is not "Jesus"..... If it is Christ's Church it is the "earthly" system established to administer His Gospel. Further, it is the Churches "business interests" that build shopping malls, not the Church. The Church owns a LOT of different kinds of businesses, from Radio stations, to Farms, to Deseret Industries, etc. etc. These enterprises are not the Church.

So again, no.... My Jesus doesn't build shopping malls.
But, I'm not afraid to own that.... I find it perfectly reasonable for the Churches business interests to endevor in enterprises that benefits communities all over the world, including malls. The Church does all kinds of things. If Jesus IS involved in some of that, which I know he is somewhat, then I have no problem with it. Sorry you do..... your loss.

The argument that you are advancing against Obama's natural-born claim has never historically been successful. He is the American-born child of an American. One such has never been deemed ineligible to run for presidential office. That is why the crazy birthers went after the place of birth issue - it seemed to have more legs. It was colossally stupid.


Yes it has..... And you are wrong in your interpretation. He must be born to TWO CITIZENS.... That's the requirement. Obama says it himself about McCain..... So, don't argue with me. We know the constitution and it's requirements, you don't. You willingly follow Obama like sheep, we don't. We follow the law, he disregards the law when it doesn't suit him, like all liberals do.
_Obiwan
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Re: Obama finally resolves birth cert issue of his own making

Post by _Obiwan »

B23 wrote:Your book by Jonah Goldberg is a joke hit piece of the type currently being produced for the culture warrior types to show how un-American the American Left is. The book argues that during WWI Wilson used the government to regulate so much of the US economy and of course continues on to Roosevelt and Clinton and every other Democrat and that those are trademarks of fascism. Leaving aside that [as shown below] fascism is a right wing endeavor and socialism is a left wing endeavor, what Goldberg fails to do is to show that this government intrusion into American life is a bipartisan issue, that Republicans have been just as willing to use the same government apparatus to their own ends. One sided and too far reaching to be good historical writing. Political punditry in the manner of anything written by Ann Coulter and the like.


Nope, you are wrong..... When it was republicans in power, it was usually Democrats who held the actual power in congress. Thus, you are confusing MANY issues. Government increases has almost always been Democrat's in Congress or as President. Look at all they did for the time they had the Presidency and Congress this last while, they've practically in just a couple of years anilahated everything..... Don't believe me, look at their fruits. Of course, there has been the very RARE governmental increase by republicans, BUT, almost always those increases were counterbalanced by much greater decreases. Hey, I'm not saying every Republican was 100% conservative. For example we didn't really like Bush's "social" conservatism.

by the way.... Don't judge a book simply by it's cover to thus think it's only polimical. It's not.... It's a history book. Please read it.

But ultimately, you are wrong that the Right is just as guilty. I know a lot of people like to say that, to make themselves think they are "balanced" in their judgments, but it's simply not the truth. Some truth yes, but mostly not.

I won't respond to your whole post, no time or interest, but on this point you're simply wrong. Classical political spectrums are:

Left: Socialism/Communism-------Liberalism--------------Centrist------------Conservative-----Fascism:Right

Or in basic economic terms:

Left: Socialism-----------Capitalism-----------Fascism :Right

And look like this in terms of Freedom:

Left: Least------less----------most-------------less-------least Right

If you have any other questions please direct them to the local community college. I'm sure a poly sci, history, or economics teacher will be just as wrong as me.


Are you going to believe liberal historical revisionism in most colleges or simple common sense and facts???
Like I said, I know these are often the "traditional" spectrums, but the one I gave you is the actual accurate one. I gave you example also..... Name a single "facist" conservative??? I also showed you how "Anarchy" is the actual "extreme" of Right ideology, not facism. For example, people like Ron Paul and Alex Jones nuts are "extremes" of the Right, yet what do you see in them, "facism"??? Not at all, you see closer to anarchy...... believing in legalized drugs, prostitution, eliminating ALL government structures, etc. THAT is the "extreme" of the Right, not Facism.

Please stop regurgitating liberal propaganda and think for a change. Look and see beyond what you are told in liberal institutions for the actual truth. Nothing I've said here is false..... otherwise, demonstrate how. You haven't and can't. Just quoting me a liberal graph won't convince me I'm wrong. I've given you examples and clear logic which shows my position correct, you however give me graphs..... You don't realize that you've been lied to..... that liberals have perverted history and facts so as to decieve entire generations. And since liberals dominate educational institutions you can't say I'm wrong.

As to your other graphs, they also are wrong.... they should instead be really the same as the policital spectrum.

Economic:

Left: Facist/Communist/Socialist........................Capitalism/Anarchy (i.e. not enough regulation) :Right

Freedom:

Left: None(i.e. Facism)/Little/Less.......................More/Most/Anarchy (i.e. no laws) :Right

These are the ACTUAL spectrums..... Not your leftist revisionism.
_Baker
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Re: Obama finally resolves birth cert issue of his own making

Post by _Baker »

Obiwan wrote:
Baker wrote:Jesus is not two-sided; your Jesus builds shopping malls.


A "Church" is not "Jesus"..... If it is Christ's Church it is the "earthly" system established to administer His Gospel. Further, it is the Churches "business interests" that build shopping malls, not the Church. The Church owns a LOT of different kinds of businesses, from Radio stations, to Farms, to Deseret Industries, etc. etc. These enterprises are not the Church.

So again, no.... My Jesus doesn't build shopping malls.
But, I'm not afraid to own that.... I find it perfectly reasonable for the Churches business interests to endevor in enterprises that benefits communities all over the world, including malls. The Church does all kinds of things. If Jesus IS involved in some of that, which I know he is somewhat, then I have no problem with it. Sorry you do..... your loss.

The argument that you are advancing against Obama's natural-born claim has never historically been successful. He is the American-born child of an American. One such has never been deemed ineligible to run for presidential office. That is why the crazy birthers went after the place of birth issue - it seemed to have more legs. It was colossally stupid.


Yes it has..... And you are wrong in your interpretation. He must be born to TWO CITIZENS.... That's the requirement. Obama says it himself about McCain..... So, don't argue with me. We know the constitution and it's requirements, you don't. You willingly follow Obama like sheep, we don't. We follow the law, he disregards the law when it doesn't suit him, like all liberals do.


Obiwan - you are simply wrong. There would be no debate if the constitution actually spoke to the issue, which is does not. You can buy off on one interpretation of what it intends - courts in the U.S. have so far disagreed with that interpretation or ignored it. Your Jesus builds shopping malls.
"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. ... Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I." - Joseph Smith, 1844
_Obiwan
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Re: Obama finally resolves birth cert issue of his own making

Post by _Obiwan »

1. The Constitution DOES in fact speak on the issue. It is clear.
2. The "courts" have not actually addressed the issue, and in the cases it has in the past they have ruled according to what I've stated.

This is not an "interpretation", it's the actual laws.
I go to Constitutional events, lectures, etc. buddy, and have studied this issue thoroughly, so I know what I'm talking about. You've on the other hand done nothing but read liberal blogs or whatever crap.
_Baker
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Re: Obama finally resolves birth cert issue of his own making

Post by _Baker »

Obiwan wrote:1. The Constitution DOES in fact speak on the issue. It is clear.
2. The "courts" have not actually addressed the issue, and in the cases it has in the past they have ruled according to what I've stated.

This is not an "interpretation", it's the actual laws.
I go to Constitutional events, lectures, etc. buddy, and have studied this issue thoroughly, so I know what I'm talking about. You've on the other hand done nothing but read liberal blogs or whatever crap.


Well, clearly you don't understand that the constitution does NOT address the specific issue or how law is made in this country. Clearly, you understand a specific interpretation advanced by a certain political bent - but that doesn't mean that such interpretation is correct. In fact, it is currently incorrect, at least as far as what is actually the current law of the land.

Some of us actually understand this stuff a whole lot better than you do - and not because of some liberal-blog bias. Some of us would include the vast majority of members of Congress, the vast majority of the judiciary (who have routinely declined to get involved in the issue), and a whole host of scholars and others trained in the subject.

You can bark all you want, but the argument you are advancing is a loser. And your Jesus builds shopping malls.
"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. ... Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I." - Joseph Smith, 1844
_Brackite
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Re: Obama finally resolves birth cert issue of his own making

Post by _Brackite »

Obiwan wrote:
Brackite wrote:Dear Obiwan,

Could you name me any GOP Member of the U.S. Congress that agrees with you that President Barack Obama is not "a natural born American citizen?" As far as I am aware, there is not even one single GOP Member of the U.S. Congress that agrees with you that President Barack Obama is not "a natural born American citizen." I think that all of the GOP Members of Congress do believe that President Barack Obama is "a natural born American citizen." Are you just going by what the far right news outlet, World-Net-Daily, which has been claiming that President Barack Obama is not "a natural born American citizen?"

Donald, You’re Fired!:
http://factcheck.org/2011/04/donald-youre-fired/


I don't know off hand every single persons views, but I do know that all believe he's a "citizen". That however is far different from being a "natural born citizen". I know there are many who don't believe he's a natural born citizen. Further, I don't think this issue has been a priority or "knowledge" for the others who don't know anything about this issue. Not all conservatives know all the same things as other conservatives.

I'm frankly disappointed that this hasn't been a priority issue, because it's clear.
Also, you are missrepresenting my point. My point has nothing to do with Obama's "birth place", but as to the Constitution of the United States as to what makes a "natural born" citizen compared to a citizen.

Also, despite the small amount that Factcheck.org might get right, it's a leftist group and thus most of it's "facts" are not the actual facts at all but misinformation. There have been many issues that factcheck.org is NOT "factually" reporting on. There's facts, and then there's the FULL FACTS and TRUTH. Factcheck.org like most liberals use a little bit of fact to tell great lies in most issues.

Anyway, off subject..... Watch this video please and get a clue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEnaAZrYqQI

I and most conservatives never had any "actual" doubt that Obama was born here. What is in doubt however is that he is a "natural born" citizen. He is not legally eligable for the Presidency and I'm simply amazed that this has been glossed over.



I wouldn't classify Factcheck.org as a "leftist group." I would classify Mediamatters.org as a Liberal site, but Not Factcheck.org. Factcheck.org is basically a nonpartisan site. And Factcheck.org is 100% correct and definitely right in reporting that President Barack Obama is truly "a natural born American citizen." And also the National Review has reported that President Barack Obama is truly "a natural born American citizen."

Born in the U.S.A.:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... -s/editors


And we know that the National Review is Not at all a liberal Publication.
President Barack Obama is indeed a "a natural born" American citizen.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
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