Obamacare: Obama won so I fired 22 employees

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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Obamacare: Obama won so I fired 22 employees

Post by _Kevin Graham »

I reject the idea health insurance is something that should be inherently provided by employers. I'm not asked to provide car insurance, fire insurance, flood insurance, life insurance or earthquake insurance for my employees, so I don't think I should be buying them health insurance. Doing so introduces a huge distortion into the market that only makes things worse.


Well the problem here is that this is something businesses started doing on their own some time ago. Instead of paying employees more money they went with other forms of benefits such as health insurance, stock options, etc. So as this became a more popular practice with employers, and as health care costs have skyrocketed through the years, buying insurance on ones own, without benefiting through group rates which can be obtained by employers, has become more and more difficult to accomplish. So the issue now has to be getting Americans coverage in whatever way possible, and right now our current system relies on employer provided insurance. It isn't like Obama just decided on his own one day that it would be great if businesses paid for everyone's insurance. They've been doing this for quite some time now.

I returned from Brazil in 2008 and I looked into health insurance for my family of four. It would have cost me something like $15,000 a year, and that's not including co-pays and deductibles. Most people simply cannot afford that, and will instead just take their chances that they wont get sick. When they do, the government usually ends up paying for it anyway.

Also, the huge difference between getting insurance through an employer and buying it on your own, is that you don't have to worry about getting dropped due to preexisting conditions when your employer gets it in a group package. So getting it through employers is the cheapest way to get it for everyone. When you buy insurance on your own, they can drop you at any time for just about any reason they want. Two years ago, despite raking in billions in profits, AETNA just decided that it would drop 650,000 of their sickest customers for no reason other than they wanted to make more profits.

And what happens to all those premiums these people paid into for all those years? Do they get any of it back? Of course not. AETNA just pockets it all as profit and tells the sick people to go “F” themselves. That's your precious free market system at work. The only thing preventing these kinds of injustices, is government intervention in the form of regulation, which is precisely what Obamacare addresses when it prevents insurance companies from dropping people due to preexisting conditions. No wonder insurance companies hate it so much!

When I was on my mission I passed out due to a heat stroke, in Spain. The MP overreacted and sent me back stateside so I saw a cardiologist in California. He was recommended by the old couple working at the mission office. I later found out this guy had several malpractice suits against him. This doctor told me I needed a pacemaker implanted in me, which I thought was just absurd. I got a second and third opinion and they thought the guy was nuts for suggesting that. Anyway, to make a long story short, this has been on my medical record and has been haunting me ever since. It was used as a convenient excuse to jack up my insurance premiums a couple years ago, even though I have been healthy as can be expected since my mission. The system sucks, period. It needs to be completely overhauled.

We need a single payer system that is more cost efficient and fair. This would boost business revenues substantially, right? I mean as much as they wail and moan about how much it costs them for providing health insurance, if we had a single payer, tax funded system, then that would lift a HUGE burden off their shoulders. What's more, the savings from those benefits would more than likely translate to increased incomes for employees.
_Gadianton
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Re: Obamacare: Obama won so I fired 22 employees

Post by _Gadianton »

Cinepro wrote:I reject the idea health insurance is something that should be inherently provided by employers.


I agree. I can't complain about my compensation package, but as a humble, individually contributing employee -- not a mega boss like EA, holy cow dude, you've sailed clean past me in life -- I'm trying to get out of the industry of having companies provide for all kinds of stuff I don't need them to provide. Once my debt is eliminated and savings in a good place, hoping around 3 years, I plan on just being an independent contractor and getting paid for my time. I believe -- based on what I've learned from other consultants who are trying to get me to join them -- that I will make substantially more money. But it is a little more risk involved and big adjustments at first. That being said, Cinepro, give me a list of any technical tasks that you have and VPN access, and I'll let you pay me under the table. I've got Reaper open now and I'm ready to work. We'll figure out a way to deal with this.

My guess is that Obamacare will fail to meet its goals and will be a drain. But it won't be the first drain we've had or the last, and folks like Cinepro wil figure their way around it. A failing plan will not be able to force itself through the legal system and stop people from circumventing it. If America has to become a gigantic black market, it will, though I don't think it will come to that. But only the Droopy and BCSpace types, radical interventionists, have so little faith in the market to take the blows of misplaced government policy and move on.
_madeleine
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Re: Obamacare: Obama won so I fired 22 employees

Post by _madeleine »

cinepro wrote:
madeleine wrote:Here's what I think about people like this. They want to run a business and skimp by not providing benefits to employees. The Walmart model.


I reject the idea health insurance is something that should be inherently provided by employers. I'm not asked to provide car insurance, fire insurance, flood insurance, life insurance or earthquake insurance for my employees, so I don't think I should be buying them health insurance. Doing so introduces a huge distortion into the market that only makes things worse.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =114045132

If employers want to provide health insurance as a voluntary benefit, I think that's great (and it should be taxed as such). But to make it an outright expectation (or "right") is just too much.


Every employer I've worked for has given me a neatly presented piece of paper that lists the total of all my compensation. Everything my employer pays because I am working for them, plus my salary. This influences where I choose to work. If the benefits line is lower at one company, they had better be offering a higher salary. If the benefits are higher, I'll consider a lower salary.

If providing healthcare is not something you are doing, and therefore your benefits are increasing, as an employee I'd accept the increased benefit being calculated into my salary, and thus lowering something like a cost of living raise.

Other than that, you make a compelling argument for the unionization of the workforce.
Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI
_cinepro
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Re: Obamacare: Obama won so I fired 22 employees

Post by _cinepro »

Kevin Graham wrote:We need a single payer system that is more cost efficient and fair. This would boost business revenues substantially, right? I mean as much as they wail and moan about how much it costs them for providing health insurance, if we had a single payer, tax funded system, then that would lift a HUGE burden off their shoulders. What's more, the savings from those benefits would more than likely translate to increased incomes for employees.


Where does the money for a government run system come from?
_cinepro
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Re: Obamacare: Obama won so I fired 22 employees

Post by _cinepro »

madeleine wrote:Other than that, you make a compelling argument for the unionization of the workforce.


Well, I'm glad I could do it because the unions sure aren't.
_ajax18
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Re: Obamacare: Obama won so I fired 22 employees

Post by _ajax18 »

Where does the money for a government run system come from?


Exactly! I guess it's just human nature that people want something for nothing.

If America has to become a gigantic black market, it will, though I don't think it will come to that.


It will come to that. It has been heading that way little by little for some time now.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Obamacare: Obama won so I fired 22 employees

Post by _Kevin Graham »

cinepro wrote:Where does the money for a government run system come from?


From our taxes obviously. Look, our taxes already subsidize something like 26% of our health care industry as it is. Our taxes also fund the most outrageous military force the world has ever seen. We could easily afford a universal health care system if other countries can. We're a very rich country, we just put all our revenues into the dumbest things. In my view, saving American lives should be at the top of our list of priorities. Republicans disagree, unless they're talking about Americans being threatened by Muslims.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Obamacare: Obama won so I fired 22 employees

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Exactly! I guess it's just human nature that people want something for nothing.


Listen asswipe, no one said anything is for free or wanting something for free. I'm fairly confident I've paid more in income taxes than you probably will for the rest of your life. Given that fact, and following your logic, I should have more of a say how these tax dollars are spent. You guys love to whine about how YOUR tax dollars (as if no one else pays!) are being spent to help save the lives of others (via healthcare), AGAINST your will, but how about the millions of Americans who pay far more in taxes who have absolutely NO SAY whatsoever in how these same tax dollars are spent on military, corporate welfare, etc?
_ajax18
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Re: Obamacare: Obama won so I fired 22 employees

Post by _ajax18 »

I'm fairly confident I've paid more in income taxes than you probably will for the rest of your life.


How much do you make per year?
Last edited by ICCrawler - ICjobs on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_Ceeboo
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Re: Obamacare: Obama won so I fired 22 employees

Post by _Ceeboo »

Wow!

Some of these political threads (this one certainly included) have been eye-popping!


Wow!


Scary!
Really freaking scary!


Peace,
Ceeboo
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