LA Homelessness Data (it's not drugs)

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_Bret Ripley
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Re: LA Homelessness Data (it's not drugs)

Post by _Bret Ripley »

Markk wrote:I gave data about LA
And what does that data tell us about the causes of LA's increase in homelessness? Remember: we're looking at the folks who make up the delta.

For example: if the % of those with substance abuse problems among the homeless decreases while the number homeless increases, that's a good indicator that the % of new homeless people with substance abuse problems is lower than that of the beginning homeless population. If you do not understand that concept, there is simply nothing further to discuss.
Markk wrote:There was concern and data that showed that when we landed on the moon the Lem might sink...we had to land to find out.
I suppose we could say there is 'data' indicating that the LEM did not sink, but how would we know?
Markk wrote:When is the last time you have been to LA?
When is the last time you have been to the Sea of Tranquility?
_Markk
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Re: LA Homelessness Data (it's not drugs)

Post by _Markk »

schreech wrote:
Omg, it’s like you tried to be wrong in every sentence you posted, it’s just becoming sad. Torrance is not in LA and your office is only 30 minutes away-lol. Your delusions are becoming more vivid and even less relevant.

You obviously didn’t read or understand what Brett posted. It’s ok, I get that you don’t really understand what is being discussed and you don’t seem to comprehend any of the things anyone is saying. Data dne anecdote. How do you not understand that???

Again. Slow down and reread the things people are saying before launching into another irrelevant rant.

It’s hilarious that you think that me moving from one part of “SO CA” to another somehow indicated that “SO CA” is falling apart and being decimated. Lol. Your critical thinking skills are sorely lacking.


Did I use the word decimated?

I addressed BR on both sides... I have given just as much Data as others, maybe more. Bret wrote

He brings up Yucaipa because even if we had no data about LA, why should he trust the experiences of someone who has never lived there over his own?

My point was I did support data, and that while I don't live in LA, either do you...so how could you know more than me if both of us only work in LA and not live there...in regards to personal experience.

You again are just creating a straw-man arguments to avoid answering the questions I ask. It reminds me of talking with many here that were still LDS before they came out, in that I came out earlier than some. These were the types of arguments KG would use when we would discuss Psalms 82 or the Book of Abraham...it always ending up I did not know who to read and did not understand academics, critical thought, and papers. It is nothing new.

How long did you live in Torrance...where you born there?

Are you going to tell me where you live now...and why you moved there? How long have you lived in OC?
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: LA Homelessness Data (it's not drugs)

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Here's a relevant thread that popped up on Reddit:

https://np.reddit.com/r/news/comments/8 ... ?context=3

O.C.'s grand homeless plan collapsing as residents balk at having shelters in their neighborhoods


People who aren't local are not understanding the context here. I work in an around one of the encampments this measure is designed to "control" and I can provide some background information.

For the past several years, Orange County has experienced a massive increase of homeless encampments. Primarily, they are located along the Santa Ana riverbed, at the OC Civic Center, and another couple scattered around various riverbeds.

The reason these encampments have been allowed to flourish is because they are on COUNTY land, or other land not controlled by a single municipality. Various cities and their police forces have been unable to control the homeless encampments because they don't have jurisdiction. The county land is controlled by the Orange County Board of Supervisors, which is currently manned by, shall we say, significantly more liberal people than you would expect for largely upper middle class Orange County.

What is important to understand is that these people are not HOMELESS. They are VAGRANTS. I can't make a blanket assumption, but I would hazard a guess that of all the homeless people in these encampments, less than 10% would even be interested in a job and a permanent place to live. I'm serious.

Anecdotal but typical of my experiences with the local vagrants: There is one guy who lives behind/beside my office. He's been there for over a year. His daughter has come into our office and told us his name and begged to help us convince him to come home. He refuses. He literally runs whenever she comes around to offer him a ride home. He just is content to live under a tarp and do whatever his drug of choice is.

I spend a lot of time at the OC Civic Center, which was a big public library, the county seat of government, several parks, etc. Supposed to be a place for everyone to enjoy. Yet it is essentially a war zone. There is a big central square with the flags of the countries of the world, etc. Should be nice, right? Except it has been allowed to become a homeless encampment. Literally in the middle of Orange damned County's civic center. Over 100 tents filled with vagrants. You used to see kids and families at the civic center... not anymore. Despite the porta-johns that went in a year ago, they continue to piss and crap in the Japanese garden next to the courthouse. There is trash everyone. Half the people are walking around half-naked. I pay exorbitant taxes to maintain the civic center yet I would literally never let my wife and kids anywhere near the place.

And the crazy part is, nobody seems to care. They allow a different soup kitchen to set up on site every day. They have a little tent set up next to the camp for people to drop off supplies. They bring in a hazmat crew to clean up the trash once a month or so. But nobody tells them to leave!

Anyway, I'm getting away from myself. The situation has been so toxic for so long, a few public servants (like the guy who has been gunning for the DA job) have been banging the drum about actually doing something about it. The Santa Ana riverbed camp is literally next to some people's backyards and their home values have cratered. The Civic Center is a damned nightmare. So they are trying to force these people out. Of course, bleeding hearts from out of town sued to stop them, but the judge handling the case walked through the encampments and said moving them was something that had to happen. So the County came up with this "plan" of setting up circus tents with beds and porta-johns and shipping the people there. I won't comment on my thoughts about the chances that would be successful, but suffice to say its all a big joke anyway.

Oh, did I mention that Orange County has been paying for hotel rooms for these homeless people for the last month while they are trying to set up the tents? Yes, taxpayers are putting these people (the few who will accept, anyway) in hotels.

So the county's plan is basically "Hey, “F” the responsible homeowners in Hunter Biden, Irvine, and Laguna Niguel" (all very nice, upscale cities) we are going to dump hundreds of literal vagrants in your backyards. Enjoy your property values! Thankfully, Hunter Biden and Laguna Niguel lawyered up and put the kibosh on their circus tents, but the county actually owns a bit of land in the middle of Irvine so they haven't been able to stop it yet. And Irvine might be the "wealthiest" of all. My wife works in healthcare not far from this site and she is dreading the influx of homeless that will probably flood her parking lot and bathrooms, or looking for medication.

You can think me or others like myself who fear these homeless and what they will do to our lives and property values, but I work amongst these very homeless people. They don't want our help. They won't accept it. They WANT to be this way.

And before someone jumps in and says "WELL WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO THEN YOU ELITIST SCUM" my solution is simple: Ship them to the desert where the land is free. Set them up with a tent, running water, and basic social services. Whenever they show up back here, ship them right back out. We don't need to abandon them, but we sure as crap don't need to coddle them either.


The bumplex meme is spreading...

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Markk
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Re: LA Homelessness Data (it's not drugs)

Post by _Markk »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Markk wrote:I gave data about LA
And what does that data tell us about the causes of LA's increase in homelessness? Remember: we're looking at the folks who make up the delta.

For example: if the % of those with substance abuse problems among the homeless decreases while the number homeless increases, that's a good indicator that the % of new homeless people with substance abuse problems is lower than that of the beginning homeless population. If you do not understand that concept, there is simply nothing further to discuss.
Markk wrote:There was concern and data that showed that when we landed on the moon the Lem might sink...we had to land to find out.
I suppose we could say there is 'data' indicating that the LEM did not sink, but how would we know?
Markk wrote:When is the last time you have been to LA?
When is the last time you have been to the Sea of Tranquility?


Why can't you just answer the question? When was the last time you were in LA.

Substance abuse is growing, there is a epidemic of it.

read this...it discuss Glads argument and mine...the difference is I understand that housing is one of many factors, while Glad wants to imply it is the only reason.

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/01/17/f ... on-record/

Susan Price, the county’s director of care coordination, blamed the recent swell in homeless deaths on the opiate epidemic, saying “the deaths correlate to health conditions and overdoses related to addictive behavior.” She said the opiate epidemic has been compounded locally by state legislation that reduced penalties for low-level drug offenses, leaving addicts on the street.

However, the number of homeless deaths in the county has increased by at least 60 percent since 2013 even when discounting for overdose fatalities.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
_schreech
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Re: LA Homelessness Data (it's not drugs)

Post by _schreech »

Markk wrote:
schreech wrote:
Omg, it’s like you tried to be wrong in every sentence you posted, it’s just becoming sad. Torrance is not in LA and your office is only 30 minutes away-lol. Your delusions are becoming more vivid and even less relevant.

You obviously didn’t read or understand what Brett posted. It’s ok, I get that you don’t really understand what is being discussed and you don’t seem to comprehend any of the things anyone is saying. Data dne anecdote. How do you not understand that???

Again. Slow down and reread the things people are saying before launching into another irrelevant rant.

It’s hilarious that you think that me moving from one part of “SO CA” to another somehow indicated that “SO CA” is falling apart and being decimated. Lol. Your critical thinking skills are sorely lacking.


Did I use the word decimated?

I addressed BR on both sides... I have given just as much Data as others, maybe more. Bret wrote

He brings up Yucaipa because even if we had no data about LA, why should he trust the experiences of someone who has never lived there over his own?

My point was I did support data, and that while I don't live in LA, either do you...so how could you know more than me if both of us only work in LA and not live there...in regards to personal experience.

You again are just creating a straw-man arguments to avoid answering the questions I ask. It reminds me of talking with many here that were still LDS before they came out, in that I came out earlier than some. These were the types of arguments Kevin Graham would use when we would discuss Psalms 82 or the Book of Abraham...it always ending up I did not know who to read and did not understand academics, critical thought, and papers. It is nothing new.

How long did you live in Torrance...where you born there?

Are you going to tell me where you live now...and why you moved there? How long have you lived in OC?



Omg. You are hopeless and getting boring now. Reread what I wrote, in your mind you are right, everyone else is wrong. Me, Brett, gad, Kevin graham (apparently?), anyone that has more experience and reading comprehension than you, etc.

You are right in your own, ignorant and incapable, mind. Continue to not live in either of the places you continue to use as your examples of the decline of “SO CA”. We (those of us that live and work here and are capable of understanding the data being printed)will happily continue to enjoy all the benefits that come along with the economic growth and revitalization that “SO CA” is experiencing. We will also happily welcome the hard working immigrants that are improving the situation across la and Oc, raising property values and keeping the construction industry going strong.

You, on the other hand, will continue to rely on us for work while commuting several hours a day and living in the ass end of the San Bernardino valley. I appreciate you, we need more people willing to drive in to fill the jobs that are available, but I’m glad you aren’t my neighbor. The world is full of ignorant people like yourself, if you ever left SoCal, you might gain some perspective.
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: LA Homelessness Data (it's not drugs)

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Image

That's Orange County's government building, by the way. The seat of OC's government. Lol.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Bret Ripley
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Re: LA Homelessness Data (it's not drugs)

Post by _Bret Ripley »

Markk wrote:Why can't you just answer the question? When was the last time you were in LA.
I didn't answer because my personal experience is of infinitesimal relevance compared to the available data. Say, did I mention that data about LA is better evidence than anecdote? Because I'm almost certian I mentioned that data about LA is better evidence than anecdote.
Substance abuse is growing, there is a epidemic of it.
Okay.
read this...it discuss Glads
(Pssst: it's "Gad," not Glad.)
argument and mine...
Susan Price, the county’s director of care coordination, blamed the recent swell in homeless deaths on the opiate epidemic, saying “the deaths correlate to health conditions and overdoses related to addictive behavior.” She said the opiate epidemic has been compounded locally by state legislation that reduced penalties for low-level drug offenses, leaving addicts on the street.

However, the number of homeless deaths in the county has increased by at least 60 percent since 2013 even when discounting for overdose fatalities.
Yes, and it's tragic. What does this tell you about the causes of increased homelessness in LA?
_Markk
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Re: LA Homelessness Data (it's not drugs)

Post by _Markk »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Markk wrote:Why can't you just answer the question? When was the last time you were in LA.
I didn't answer because my personal experience is of infinitesimal relevance compared to the available data. Say, did I mention that data about LA is better evidence than anecdote? Because I'm almost certian I mentioned that data about LA is better evidence than anecdote.
Substance abuse is growing, there is a epidemic of it.
Okay.
read this...it discuss Glads
(Pssst: it's "Gad," not Glad.)
argument and mine...
Susan Price, the county’s director of care coordination, blamed the recent swell in homeless deaths on the opiate epidemic, saying “the deaths correlate to health conditions and overdoses related to addictive behavior.” She said the opiate epidemic has been compounded locally by state legislation that reduced penalties for low-level drug offenses, leaving addicts on the street.

However, the number of homeless deaths in the county has increased by at least 60 percent since 2013 even when discounting for overdose fatalities.
Yes, and it's tragic. What does this tell you about the causes of increased homelessness in LA?


At least understand there are two issues we are discussing. And it is "Glad"...he is such a happy person.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
_Markk
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Re: LA Homelessness Data (it's not drugs)

Post by _Markk »

schreech wrote:
Omg. You are hopeless and getting boring now. Reread what I wrote, in your mind you are right, everyone else is wrong. Me, Brett, gad, Kevin graham (apparently?), anyone that has more experience and reading comprehension than you, etc.

You are right in your own, ignorant and incapable, mind. Continue to not live in either of the places you continue to use as your examples of the decline of “SO CA”. We (those of us that live and work here and are capable of understanding the data being printed)will happily continue to enjoy all the benefits that come along with the economic growth and revitalization that “SO CA” is experiencing. We will also happily welcome the hard working immigrants that are improving the situation across la and Oc, raising property values and keeping the construction industry going strong.

You, on the other hand, will continue to rely on us for work while commuting several hours a day and living in the ass end of the San Bernardino valley. I appreciate you, we need more people willing to drive in to fill the jobs that are available, but I’m glad you aren’t my neighbor. The world is full of ignorant people like yourself, if you ever left SoCal, you might gain some perspective.


Nice, you have dodged discussion with ad hom straw-men.

Also from what I gather from bits and pieces, you no longer commute to LA?
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
_Themis
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Re: LA Homelessness Data (it's not drugs)

Post by _Themis »

Markk wrote:read this...it discuss Glads argument and mine...the difference is I understand that housing is one of many factors, while Glad wants to imply it is the only reason.


He backed up that it was the primary reason for the increase in homeless numbers. You have not shown any evidence. I don't assume Gad is suggesting housing is the only cause of people being homeless. Only that most of the increase is caused by it. I would also add that most understand many of those on the edge who end up homeless due to increasing rents and such also have other problems like mental illness, drugs, alcohol abuse, etc. It's those other problems that can put them in situations where they are close to being homeless.
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