Why Is Trump So Eager to Do Putin's Bidding?

[_Gunnar]

So, now Ajax is claiming that any kind of international cooperation to address any kind of problem that effects all of us worldwide is necessarily and inherently communistic in nature, and therefore evil and must be rejected. Either that, or he thinks that any solution to any problem must be summarily rejected, even if it demonstrably works and is indispensable to successful solution of the problem, if communists are also in favor of it.

There is plenty wrong with communism, but not everything ever done or proposed by communists fails or is a poor idea. One doesn't reject the idea that the sky is blue or that we ought to fight crime and fires just because communists also agree with that.

Besides that, working collectively and cooperatively to a achieve a common goal for the benefit of all is not exclusively a communist Ideal, and certainly not an inherently evil one.

[_Gunnar]

The idea that global warming is a communist scheme comes from the notion that international collective regulation of economic activity is necessary to combat it, and that in of itself is a prelude to communist control of industry. The full conspiracy is that academia is full of leftists who are fabricating global warming hysteria as a mere pretext for international government control of industry.

It's one of those bananas ideas that someone like Ajax would never think or care about if not for the cross-breeding of ideas within his conservative media sources. He's in it for the racism, but somehow he's all of a sudden a staunch opponent of climate science. It's kinda wild when you really think about it.

It's also a reminder of how powerful the merchants of doubt ended up getting. Global warming is not too dissimilar from ozone depleting chemicals in terms of global threat caused by individual polluters scattered around the planet. Yet, international action on that was largely successful and the worst of the global consequences were averted (for now). It is a major environmental success story. In fact, the US's cooperation and leadership on the issue occurred under Reagan and George H.W. Bush.

This did not usher in global communism, but it is instructive about how conservatism degraded in the following years.

Yeah, as pointed out by Oreskes and Conway in Merchants of Doubt.

[_Some Schmo]

The thing about racism, especially embraced racism, is that it shows an obvious defect in the way a person thinks. You can't be thinking clearly or logically if you are convinced by racist sentiment. Just the very idea that by being born into a particular race, a situation for which you have absolutely no control, you are automatically superior to everyone not in that race is idiotic on its face.

Have you ever met a smart racist? I haven't.

So if one comes along trying to link climate to communism, well... it's to be expected. These guys just aren't that bright.

[_Brackite]

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/climate-change-a-back-door-to-communism-and-the-united-nations-admits-it/

A decent explanation on the connection of global warming and communism.

That Article is dated from January of 2014. Since that time, 2016 was the hottest year on record with 2015 and 2017 essentially being tied for the 2nd hottest year on record. And we have been recently having this big heatwave within the Central and Eastern U.S.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

ETA: At least 33 deaths across Quebec, Canada is being blamed with this recent big heat wave.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... a-44730887

[_EAllusion]

Given the number of heat records being broken around the globe in the recent heat wave, I’m surprised by the relative dearth of climate change coverage. The press often needs a hook to discuss the issue, and this seems like a prime one.

It’s becoming more and more clear that we are not going to act in time to avert relatively catastrophic outcomes. It’s hard not to understand the issue and not feel a certain amount of despair.

[_Some Schmo]

It’s becoming more and more clear that we are not going to act in time to avert relatively catastrophic outcomes. It’s hard not to understand the issue and not feel a certain amount of despair.

I can relate to this. I shudder to think about my daughter's future. It's just getting started.

The problem is that the selfishness that has caused this is the same that prevents solutions. The kind of greed it takes to have billions of dollars and still feel like you need more is the only kind of greed that would sacrifice the planet for your own wealth exaltation.

[_Gunnar]

It’s becoming more and more clear that we are not going to act in time to avert relatively catastrophic outcomes. It’s hard not to understand the issue and not feel a certain amount of despair.

I understand that despair. By an increasing number of credible accounts we are approaching and accelerating towards or may even have passed a number of important tipping points from which it will likely be impossible to recover. Potentially the most devastating of these tipping points is this one:

But the biggest factor in all of this, and the one tipping point which we have already passed is this one — the social tipping point. (Granted this is hypothetical and I admit that it's difficult to argue against speculation and prognostication.)

What I see as the social tipping point is the part where people stop caring because they feel entirely powerless to affect any change, where governments choose not to act for leverage (political/financial etc.), where governments and corporations choose not to act in order to preserve/increase profits, where the food supply gets put under more pressure due changes in climate (extremes, predictability, rainfall etc.) and so people will be less interested in eating locally or sustainably and more interested in just trying to get enough food, where electricity usage will skyrocket as people try to maintain a comfortable temperature indoors while it's either baking or freezing outside, where we will be faced with increasingly severe humanitarian crises (water shortages, coastal flooding, islands being submerged, famines etc.), where wars over resources will only increase, and the sum of these social feedback loops will cripple our ability to focus on ways to address runaway climate change because we will be dealing with other more urgent issues that cannot be ignored.

The reason that I believe we have passed this so-called social tipping point is because collectively we have not only failed to halt carbon emissions, but instead we have only been increasing them. If there were hope for us to achieve serious change in order to avert catastrophic climate change, it would be indicated by the countries of the world rallying to make carbon emissions simply plateau. But we can't even do that. So I believe that it's too late for the world to not only stop the increase of carbon emissions, but that it's too late to be able to bring about the dramatic changes in lifestyles/living standards etc. required to avoid either increasing carbon emissions (which is a catastrophe) or simply halting carbon emissions where they are right now (which is a catastrophe).

And I think that as we have surpassed this social tipping point, it will cause feedback loops in society as well as in the environment which will push us increasingly faster down a path of catastrophic climate change.

People with attitudes like Ajax tend to amplify this tipping point by refusing to acknowledge the problem, and thus delaying needed actions to prevent or solve it, this greatly increasing the likelihood that the problem will become so severe that governments will feel forced in extremis to mandate the very restrictions on behavior and personal freedom that Ajax fears most.

I can relate to this. I shudder to think about my daughter's future. It's just getting started.

I feel exactly the same way! I am terrified for the sake of my precious grandchildren!

The problem is that the selfishness that has caused this is the same that prevents solutions. The kind of greed it takes to have billions of dollars and still feel like you need more is the only kind of greed that would sacrifice the planet for your own wealth exaltation.

Yes. You and I have discussed before the irrationality of extremely wealthy and powerful people continuing to strive for more and more of what has already demonstrably failed to make them happy and content.

I hope, however, that it may still be possible to at least partially turn things around, though:
UN climate science chief: it's not too late to avoid dangerous temperature rise. According to Hoesung Lee, head of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change,

But Lee insisted the 2C goal remained technically feasible, although it could become prohibitively expensive. “2C is achievable, and if we fail to act according to what the IPCC has been advising, the cost will rise phenomenally,” Lee said. “The sooner we act, we will be able to achieve 2C stabilisation cost-effectively,” he went on. “The longer we wait to take action, the cost will be a lot higher.”

No one denies that preventing or ameliorating climate change will be enormously expensive, which is why so many are resisting doing anything about it, but if AGW is real, any delays in addressing the problem will exponentially explode the cost of dealing with it, let alone the incredible societal and economic costs of ignoring the problem altogether and pretending It doesn't exist!

So much for the consequences of failure to act ("the stick"). Let's not forget that there are also enormous potential rewards ("the carrot") from transitioning away from dependence on fossil fuels to renewable energy sources--so potenially lucrative that it essentially insane to not pursue that approach, regardless of what is true or not true about AGW. This has also been frequently discussed on this forum, and is becoming more and more apparent all the time. Why would anyone, whether liberal or conservative (who doesn't make his living from the production, distribution and sale of fossil fuels) object to that? It makes no sense whatsoever!

[_Some Schmo]

So much for the consequences of failure to act ("the stick"). Let's not forget that there are also enormous potential rewards ("the carrot") from transitioning away from dependence on fossil fuels to renewable energy sources--so potenially lucrative that it essentially insane to not pursue that approach, regardless of what is true or not true about AGW. This has also been frequently discussed on this forum, and is becoming more and more apparent all the time. Why would anyone, whether liberal or conservative (who doesn't make his living from the production, distribution and sale of fossil fuels) object to that? It makes no sense whatsoever!

I think about this all the time. I think people in this country, both left and right, are largely followers. If their team says a thing, they repeat that thing. The fossil fuel assholes of the world have American "conservatives" in their pockets, so conservatives repeat their crap.

Some people don't feel right unless they're being an asshole to the planet, and hence, everyone else. I don't pretend to understand what motivates American right-wingers. All I've got is, they revel in being assholes and lemmings.

[_subgenius]

Given the number of heat records being broken around the globe in the recent heat wave, I’m surprised by the relative dearth of climate change coverage. The press often needs a hook to discuss the issue, and this seems like a prime one.

It’s becoming more and more clear that we are not going to act in time to avert relatively catastrophic outcomes. It’s hard not to understand the issue and not feel a certain amount of despair.

incessant is the word that comes to mind, which leads to familiarity which leads to contempt.
Climate control has reached chicken little proportions - whether the sky is falling or is not, once again we see a saturation that renders the public ambivalent...score another one for human adaptation.
Point being - the "catastrophe" call has been an ongoing Y2K where most of us here have already experienced several climate-doomsdays that have come and gone. I am becoming more and more accustomed to the idea that climate change is nothing more than an opportunity for dire political action, because protection from pollution/climate requires a sacrifice of democracy (but that is another topic).

Washington Post, January 11, 1970: Headline: “Colder Winters Held [sic] Dawn of New Ice Age / Scientists See Ice Age In the Future”

“Get a grip on your long johns, cold weather haters – the worst may be yet to come. That’s the long-range weather forecast being given out by ‘climatologists,’ the people who study very long-term world weather trends….

“Some of them [climatologists] say the world is in a ‘cold snap’ that started in 1950 and which could last hundreds of years, even bringing on the start of another Ice Age.

New York Times, May 21, 1975: Headline: “Scientists Ask Why World Climate Is Changing; Major Cooling May Be Ahead”

“Sooner or later a major cooling of the climate is widely considered inevitable. Hints that it may already have begun are evident.

Is Mankind Manufacturing a New Ice Age for Itself? (L.A. Times, January 15, 1970)
Scientist predicts a new ice age by 21st century (Boston Globe, April 16, 1970)
U.S. Scientist Sees New Ice Age Coming (The Washington Post, July 9, 1971)
Ice Age Around the Corner (Chicago Tribune, July 10, 1971)
New Ice Age Coming – It’s Already Getting Colder (L.A. Times, October 24, 1971)
British Expert on Climate Change Says New Ice Age Creeping Over Northern Hemisphere(Lewiston Evening Journal, September 11, 1972)
Science: Another Ice Age? (Time Magazine, November 13, 1972)
Ice Age On Its Way, Scientist Says (Toledo Blade, December 13, 1972)
‘Man-made Ice Age’ Worries Scientists (The Free Lance-Star, June 22, 1973)
Weather-watchers think another ice age may be on the way (The Christian Science Monitor, December 11, 1973)
Ominous Changes in the World’s Weather (PDF) (Fortune, February 1974)
Another Ice Age? (Time Magazine, June 24, 1974)
2 Scientists Think ‘Little’ Ice Age Near (The Hartford Courant, August 11, 1974)
Ice Age, worse food crisis seen (The Chicago Tribune, October 30, 1974)
Pollution Could Spur Ice Age, NASA Says (Beaver Country Times, ‎December 4, 1974‎)
Climate Change: Chilling Possibilities (Science News, March 1, 1975)
B-r-r-r-r: New Ice Age on way soon? (The Chicago Tribune, March 2, 1975)
Is Another Ice Age Due? Arctic Ice Expands In Last Decade (Youngstown Vindicator, ‎March 2, 1975‎)
The Cooling World (Newsweek, April 28, 1975)
Oil Spill Could Cause New Ice Age (Milwaukee Journal, December 11, 1975)
Worrisome CIA Report; Even U.S. Farms May be Hit by Cooling Trend (U.S. News & World Report, May 31, 1976)
The Ice Age Cometh… (New York Magazine, January 31, 1977)
The Big Freeze (Time Magazine, January 31, 1977)
Space Mirrors Proposed To Prevent Crop Freezes (Bangor Daily News, February 7, 1977)
We Will Freeze in the Dark (Capital Cities Communications Documentary, Host: Nancy Dickerson, April 12, 1977)
Little Ice Age: Severe winters and cool summers ahead (Calgary Herald, January 10, 1978)
Geologist Says Winters Getting Colder (Middlesboro Daily News, January 16, 1978)
Large Glacial Buildup Could Mean Ice Age (Spokane Daily Chronicle, June 5, 1979)
New ice age almost upon us? (The Christian Science Monitor, November 14, 1979)

"Some say the world will end in fire / Some say in ice" - Robert Frost

[_canpakes]

Lol, did you borrow that discredited list from ldsfaqs?

I immediately recognize at least one of those titles as an article about the economy ... but because you’re just passing along someone else’s BS propaganda and listing any title that just sounds like it’s about cold weather, you won’t even know it.

Thank you for another demonstration on how to be a shallow tool.