WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

[Morley]

So, what is this truth that you and Cooper have presented here? The one everyone has rejected?

[Morley]

You are mistaken, I can and have showed you where people say or imply that Hitler/Germany was indeed prepared.

This was your and my last back-and-forth on this:

...My point about Cooper and still is that his claim, which was disputed by some, is that the Germans were no prepared for the Millions of political prisoners, POW's, and Jew's.....which is just a historical fact...

Markk, who disputed it? Perhaps you'll link to this? I glanced through the posts, and I couldn't find anyone asserting that the Nazis were fully prepared for what you're calling "the Millions of political prisoners, POW's, and Jew's".

Lol, the good we all agree with Cooper.

So, are you returning to this as the 'truth' that historians and most members of this thread reject?

[Morley]

viewtopic.php?p=2900445#p2900445

Really? How is Gad saying the Nazis were fully prepared?

[Markk]

I’m well aware of how this thread has developed. And no, what you’re claiming you did doesn’t compare. If I were making excuses for Stalin, like you’ve done with Hitler and the Nazis via your proxy Cooper (and Carlson), then you would be accurate. And now you’re introducing an additional whatabout by bringing Mao into the mix. What you’re doing is downplaying the sheer scale of fascist action and intent via apologetics. It’d be akin to explaining away Japan’s Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity plan that ‘somehow’ didn’t mean to kill 15M Chinese, not acknowledging Japan’s version of Lebensraum, and the eventual depopulation of China, Manchuria, and eventually India.

This whole thread is confirming a pet theory of mine that the White Christian Nationalists are just the KKK repackaged, hence their low-key admiration of the Nazis and by extension their fascination with authoritarianism. This is why you always see these yahoos marching around with the Nazi and Confederate flags together.

Markk. You’re driving down a narrow road with not much room to turn around. I’d recommend you get away from that movement as fast as you can. No good comes from it.

- Doc

Where did I make excused for Hitler?

I brought up Mao, and I could bring up others, such Genghis Khan, that are maniacal mass murderers along with Hitler and Stalin. I am not downplaying fascism, show me where I did that....what I wrote is that Finland had a choice of partnering with the Communism that killed millions of Ukrainians, Russians, and even Finns in the 30s, and the fascism of Germany that was killing millions in Eastern Europe. They tried hard to stay neutral during the war, but could not, they chose a weak alliance with Germany, like we chose a much stronger alliance with Communist Russia.

We, the US chose the other mass murderer to "partner" with against fascism. You conceded Stalin was a mass murderer....."I know full well he was responsible for mass killings and brutal oppression. That’s a historical fact."



You seem to be having a hard time processing what happened during WW2, and the hard decisions countries had to make.

I get you are trying to change the subject, which we can get to, but let’s square this up first.

[Morley]

We, the US chose the other mass murderer to "partner" with against fascism. You conceded Stalin was a mass murderer.....

Unless you think we should have chosen Hitler, this means nothing. This is more moral equivalency BS.

edit: Maybe you think that when Germany declared war on the US, we should have gone to war with Russia instead? Or perhaps we should have gone to war with both Russia and Germany? Oh, and Japan and Italy?

[Morley]

You seem to be having a hard time processing what happened during WW2, and the hard decisions countries had to make.

No one is having a hard time processing this. Just in case you're thinking otherwise, this is not a special truth that only you, Tucker, and Cooper understand.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

You seem to be having a hard time processing what happened during WW2, and the hard decisions countries had to make.

I get you are trying to change the subject, which we can get to, but lets square this up first.

Have you never heard that the enemy of my enemy is my friend? Stop projecting ref anyone changing the subject - it is you who is constantly changing the subject by introducing non sequiturs.

- Doc

[Gadianton]

Really? How is Gad saying the Nazis were fully prepared?

I haven't followed every post although I did see Markk's comments about me dismissing Cooper because he didn't frame WW2 with a pretty bow that I like. That's not true at all. I dismiss Cooper because he's obviously nothing more than a Nazi apologist and he's not a historian but worst of all, his reasoning is atrocious.

If he were a real historian and if he were saying something radically controversial but with factual support or some kind of interesting argument, then I can bracket his status as an apologist and at least investigate the claim and see where it goes. There is nothing here that goes beyond the most superficial sophistry.

Markk's suggestion that I can't handle an alternative viewpoint is the only focus of Tucker and Cooper for the section about WW2, they only talk about institutional and public bias, poisoning the well, as Cooper delves into sheer apologist mode.

The point is, Morley, it doesn't matter if the Nazis were fully prepared or not, it doesn't follow that because the Nazis weren't fully prepared, that they weren't fully evil. It doesn't help their moral case. It doesn't follow that in a hugely cherry picked statement, some cold and heartless officer used the word "humane" as an excuse, that this implied some kind of undercurrent of humanity to the Nazis. A person doesn't need to have any knowledge of history to dismiss Cooper given his performance in that podcast because his reasoning is specious throughout.

It's so bad that Markk has yet to point to a single thing he's actually learned from Cooper. So far, his backpedaling has landed him with a nice list of things he learned from Wikipedia following up Chap's post. That's fantastic, but he can only assure us he's learned a ton from Cooper also. What? He doesn't even know what his point about "fully prepared" is even about now. It was obviously made by Cooper to make the sins of the Nazis less, and then contrasted with Churchill's bombing of civilians (something Hitler had already done in spades) the ultimate crime of the war. But if he's not saying the Nazis weren't as bad as we think, then what is he saying? Markk can't tell us what any of Cooper's material from Tucker amounts to, and is now losing himself in other material about the war that has nothing to do with Cooper. Oh, Cooper sparked this interesting conversation. Sure, why not. That's generally true with ignorance, the most heavily participated threads from Z until now have always been the most idiotic or most reprehensible posts started by the dumbest participants and they tend to get dog piled. That doesn't mean the idiotic points themselves were good points.

[Marcus]

All of Gad's post is excellent (thank you!!) but this part bears repeating:

Really? How is Gad saying the Nazis were fully prepared?

I haven't followed every post although I did see Markk's comments about me dismissing Cooper because he didn't frame WW2 with a pretty bow that I like. That's not true at all. I dismiss Cooper because he's obviously nothing more than a Nazi apologist and he's not a historian but worst of all, his reasoning is atrocious....

[bolding added] Couldn't agree more.

[Marcus]

...Their logic, which you were opining to, is that if one brings up a truth against the Nazis or Hitler, that is not tied up with the accepted bow, then that person is a Nazi apologist....which folks here have done with Cooper, and myself. I in turn did the same thing to you, only with Stalin...

Oh. That's why Doc said "Huh???" No, that isn't what people have been doing.

I’m well aware of how this thread has developed. And no, what you’re claiming you did doesn’t compare. If I were making excuses for Stalin, like you’ve done with Hitler and the Nazis via your proxy Cooper (and Carlson), then you would be accurate. And now you’re introducing an additional whatabout by bringing Mao into the mix. What you’re doing is downplaying the sheer scale of fascist action and intent via apologetics. It’d be akin to explaining away Japan’s Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity plan that ‘somehow’ didn’t mean to kill 15M Chinese, not acknowledging Japan’s version of Lebensraum, and the eventual depopulation of China, Manchuria, and eventually India.

This whole thread is confirming a pet theory of mine that the White Christian Nationalists are just the KKK repackaged, hence their low-key admiration of the Nazis and by extension their fascination with authoritarianism. This is why you always see these yahoos marching around with the Nazi and Confederate flags together.

Markk. You’re driving down a narrow road with not much room to turn around. I’d recommend you get away from that movement as fast as you can. No good comes from it.

- Doc

Excellent advice to Markk.